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Old 06-14-2015, 06:26 AM
 
602 posts, read 504,363 times
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With all the debate going on with raising the minimum wage, I have an idea that would solve most of the anti-hiker's concerns. Instead of an absolute dollar amount, make the minimum wage for example half the mean (full-time equivalent) pay of all workers in the company. (The average is mean and not median for a very good reason - it means that if you pay the executives an exorbitant salary you'd have to give your rank-and-file workers a raise too to make the math work.)

This proposal has the advantages in that it does not force a business to spend any more money on pay than it does now (though it may force them to be more equitable with it), concerns that there may be more inflation are moot, and for the inflation that does occur there is no need to change the law to account for that (since there is no fixed amount in the statute). The main drawback is that it'd be harder for the individual workers to enforce it, although if the government requires employers to keep records of their workers' pay then they can make that general statistical information (not necessarily individual worker's pay if privacy is a concern) public.
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Old 06-14-2015, 06:37 AM
 
Location: it depends
6,369 posts, read 6,405,709 times
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Your thoughtful proposal solves zero of my concerns. The raw, basic, fundamental, inescapable fact is that when the price of something goes up, less of it gets used. If you raise the price of low-skill labor, less of it will get used. Jobs will be destroyed. This is a cruel trick to pull on those least able to afford it.

I have the same concerns that many have about CEO pay--maybe a couple hundred instances in our land of 300 million people--but the vast majority of workers are paid the market value of their labor. Some union workers enjoy above-market-wages but we have seen this is not sustainable. No one is paid below-market wages, since workers can simply go to the employer with the better offer. But if people are working under the best conditions any employer is willing to offer, they ARE receiving an equitable wage.

Your version of "equitable" is to pay less to those who deserve it, and pay more to those who have not earned it. This is in no sense equitable.

It is unfortunate that so many of us have not figured out how to be sufficiently valuable to the rest of society to earn a living wage. A decent society will provide for those who need it. Only an ignorant society would throw that social burden onto the backs of the employers who provide the paychecks for over 100,000,000 people in the US.
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Old 06-14-2015, 06:49 AM
 
602 posts, read 504,363 times
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I do understand there should be enough wiggle room so that a position requiring a doctorate or esoteric skills should be paid several times more than an unskilled labor position. However, there is no excuse for executives (or sports figures, celebrities, or anyone else who is in their position due to show rather than substance) making 100+ times more than the median worker.
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Old 06-14-2015, 12:54 PM
 
Location: Fredericksburg, Va
5,404 posts, read 15,988,586 times
Reputation: 8095
Quote:
Originally Posted by KellyXY View Post
I do understand there should be enough wiggle room so that a position requiring a doctorate or esoteric skills should be paid several times more than an unskilled labor position. However, there is no excuse for executives (or sports figures, celebrities, or anyone else who is in their position due to show rather than substance) making 100+ times more than the median worker.
The reason is CAPITALISM....it's what America is...and why anyone can become more prosperous...IF they acquire a skill, or work harder than others, or have the "want" to do it.

Minimum wage jobs are not meant to be lifelong positions....they are "stepping stones" to something better.

Start giving the burger flipper $20 per hour, and what do you think that burger is going to cost you?

If you want to make more money, become skilled at something....you don't need to go into debt getting some degree....learn a trade or a skill....this country NEEDS folks to DO things....like trimming trees, or fixing a leaking water line, or roofing, tiling, paving, cooking, sewing....you name it....it's a skill that PAYS!
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Old 06-14-2015, 12:56 PM
 
Location: Texas
44,254 posts, read 64,332,595 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KellyXY View Post
I do understand there should be enough wiggle room so that a position requiring a doctorate or esoteric skills should be paid several times more than an unskilled labor position. However, there is no excuse for executives (or sports figures, celebrities, or anyone else who is in their position due to show rather than substance) making 100+ times more than the median worker.
That has nothing to do with anything you can legislate and everything to do with the priorities of our society. These people make money because the general public has deemed that they are valuable. There's no way for you to take their money and suddenly make it available to everyone else. If they didn't make the money, that money wouldn't exist.
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Old 06-14-2015, 05:20 PM
 
Location: MD's Eastern Shore
3,700 posts, read 4,844,822 times
Reputation: 6385
I don't see how anybody can claim there shouldn't be a minimum wage or that those jobs were never meant to be careers. Not everybody lives (or wants to live) in a big city or suburban area which would be full of options. Many are happy living in small towns and rural areas, including vacation spots where many of these people who complain about minimum wage hikes come and spend money, only driving up the costs of things. Of course the costs increase as well for the locals whose only jobs are the minimum wage services and store selling to those people. Why shouldn't the locals living in rural and small town America have a chance to make a living wage? Face it, in some places these are the ONLY jobs available. So, in my conservative opinion, it needs to be raised because without a minimum, they will pay as low as they possibly can.
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Old 06-14-2015, 05:23 PM
 
Location: MD's Eastern Shore
3,700 posts, read 4,844,822 times
Reputation: 6385
Quote:
Originally Posted by cb at sea View Post
If you want to make more money, become skilled at something....you don't need to go into debt getting some degree....learn a trade or a skill....this country NEEDS folks to DO things....like trimming trees, or fixing a leaking water line, or roofing, tiling, paving, cooking, sewing....you name it....it's a skill that PAYS!
American citizens and legal US residents need not apply. At least where I live, over 1000 miles from the Mexican border, those jobs are filled by Mexicans, Guatemalans and Hondurans using stolen Texas and Puerto Rican ID's and identities.
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Old 06-14-2015, 05:57 PM
 
Location: Central IL
20,726 posts, read 16,352,228 times
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There has been a minimum wage in the U.S. since 1938 - this is not a new concept. And that minimum wage has been raised many, many times to keep up with inflation.

Have we suddenly decided as a society that raising the minimum wage THIS time will result in a cataclysmic destruction of the economy? Or just a bit of a decrease in the profits of the .1%? Because some of the cost WILL be passed on to the public...if the public can't afford the cost then profits may go down. But businesses need people to do the labor...they won't just fire everyone because they can't make quite as much as they did the year before.

This minimum wage increase is the same as all that came before - let's just grin and bear it...and ensure that it is a living wage - that's what everyone deserves!
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Old 06-14-2015, 06:00 PM
 
Location: South Texas
4,248 posts, read 4,158,693 times
Reputation: 6051
Quote:
Originally Posted by KellyXY View Post
I do understand there should be enough wiggle room so that a position requiring a doctorate or esoteric skills should be paid several times more than an unskilled labor position. However, there is no excuse for executives (or sports figures, celebrities, or anyone else who is in their position due to show rather than substance) making 100+ times more than the median worker.
Why do you seek to eliminate market value from compensation decisions?
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Old 06-14-2015, 06:01 PM
 
13,395 posts, read 13,497,029 times
Reputation: 35712
Quote:
Originally Posted by KellyXY View Post
I do understand there should be enough wiggle room so that a position requiring a doctorate or esoteric skills should be paid several times more than an unskilled labor position. However, there is no excuse for executives (or sports figures, celebrities, or anyone else who is in their position due to show rather than substance) making 100+ times more than the median worker.
How have you determined that the high salaries are because of "show?"

Different jobs and industries have different revenue and income generation. Why sholdn't some people be a part of the payout?

If you wrote a fluff book and negotiated a deal of receiving $1.50 per book sold. The book sells 2 million copies. You make $3 million dollars. Are you going to give up your money because the guy running the printing press only makes $12/hr?

If you invest the next "snugglie", are you going to give up your money because the person sewing the seams is making $2.00?

Is it wrong that some people just make more money than other people?

Some people are naturally entrepreneurial. Even in an agrarian society, some families grew just enough food to feed themselves. Some saw that they had extra eggs and milk and began selling the surplus to other people. This generated income and they had more money than their neighbors.
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