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Old 07-21-2015, 06:32 AM
 
1,562 posts, read 1,055,955 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ukrkoz View Post
Just for the sake of THE TRUTH. Stalin did not kill more people. Matter of fact, he did not kill anyone. Apparatus did. But this is not what I am trying to say.
The so called Bolsheviks slaughtered, as that is about the only word that fits their behavior, anywhere between 80 to over a hundred million people through the times of revolution and the so called Civil War that followed it.
With a very brief research, one can easily find who the revolutionaries were.
I can also refer you to a nice video of a rabbi who loud and clear says, that holocaust was punishment onto Jews because of the social revolutions they did, resulting in mass murder.
A very good point. While every public school student in America is forced to watch The Diary of Anne Frank, how many could give a cursory explanation of The Bolshevik Revolution? Or identify Leon Trotsky?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ukrkoz View Post
I also don't understand something. OP, why do you keep saying that THE holocaust is typed with capital H and not mention capital E? T-H-E?
I was referring to the "H" in holocaust. It's not a proper noun and requires no capitalization except, apparently, in reference to the Jewish holocaust.
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Old 07-21-2015, 12:58 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Mysterious Benefactor View Post
Why is it that so many refer to the Jewish holocaust of the mid-20th century as THE Holocaust, with a capital H? This implies, of course, that this particular holocaust was the only one, or that it's somehow more important/tragic than all of the other holocausts seen throughout history. Shouldn't we reject this?
Indeed, the correct term should be the Jewish holocaust, or the Jewish genocide. Just as there have been other genocides throughout history, such as the Armenian genocide or the Assyrian genocide, etc.
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Old 07-23-2015, 12:04 AM
 
Location: Southern Oregon
785 posts, read 767,298 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Mysterious Benefactor View Post
Why is it that so many refer to the Jewish holocaust of the mid-20th century as THE Holocaust, with a capital H? This implies, of course, that this particular holocaust was the only one, or that it's somehow more important/tragic than all of the other holocausts seen throughout history. Shouldn't we reject this?

Reject what? The phrase? I believe "Holocaust" was something coined specifically for this event and wasnt' used before to describe anything else other than great destructions. It sounds like you have a problem with the name. Is it a problem? Does it, in your mind seem to diminish other tragic events and genocides by it's usage?

Last edited by Brynach; 07-23-2015 at 12:13 AM..
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Old 07-23-2015, 12:13 PM
 
Location: Coastal New Jersey
50,981 posts, read 50,299,851 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dd714 View Post
This is a sensitive question - I do "get" his question and has nothing to do with anti-sematism, I just think it has already been answered and going on for to long.
OP - respectfully (because as you know we were both attacked by a certain poster who will not be joining us for awhile) - your question has been answered.

Just one more comment in addition to the explanations I and others provided earlier - the term "Holocaust" really became popular after this TV miniseries from 1978:

Holocaust (TV Mini-Series 1978) - IMDb

So you can partially attribute it to media, just like the genocide of Pol Pot is known as "The Killing Fields" (from the book of the same name, and the movie). The names stick.
Bingo. I think that's the first time I ever heard the word applied to what happened to the Jews in the 20th century. It was that mini-series.

The Killing Fields is another good example.
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Old 07-23-2015, 12:24 PM
 
15,162 posts, read 15,992,939 times
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"The Holocaust" has become a convenient way of referring to "the primarily Jewish genocide that occurred in the late 30's and early 40's of the twentieth century," much like "9/11" is a convenient way of referring to "the attack by Al Queda on the World Trade Center in NY and the Pentagon in Washington, D.C. that occurred on September 11, 2001."

It's a matter of linguistic convenience.
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Old 07-23-2015, 12:34 PM
 
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As an non American when I hear the term The Civil War I think automatically of the war between the North and the South not the civil wars that have been fought in the UK or the USSR. The Great War or the War to end all Wars refers to the First World War.

The Holocaust was documented by film and still images and from what I read was not even beleived by the soldiers who did not enter the camps until they either saw the images or the camps first hand. It struck the people like nothing before it because it was a visual shock.

If someone mentions The Bomb in a conversation one things of a nuclear weapon not the ACME bombs that Willy E Coyote used every week on the Roadrunner.
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Old 07-23-2015, 12:42 PM
 
1,562 posts, read 1,055,955 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brynach View Post
Reject what? The phrase? I believe "Holocaust" was something coined specifically for this event and wasnt' used before to describe anything else other than great destructions. It sounds like you have a problem with the name. Is it a problem? Does it, in your mind seem to diminish other tragic events and genocides by it's usage?
This is a strange post. You're asking a series of questions that are answered in the very OP that you copied into your post. But to clarify again, yes, calling one holocaust "THE Holocaust" (with a capital H) diminishes the importance of the other holocausts seen throughout history.

As to it being coined specifically for this event, that is incorrect. The word "holocaust" was in broad usage in reference to other massacres/human tragedies prior to WWII.
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Old 07-23-2015, 01:05 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marlow View Post
"The Holocaust" has become a convenient way of referring to "the primarily Jewish genocide that occurred in the late 30's and early 40's of the twentieth century," much like "9/11" is a convenient way of referring to "the attack by Al Queda on the World Trade Center in NY and the Pentagon in Washington, D.C. that occurred on September 11, 2001."

It's a matter of linguistic convenience.
Your analogy is a poor one. "9/11" designates a unique event on a specific day. "THE Holocaust" was not particularly unique as a holocaust. Moreover, calling it "The Nazi holocaust" would hardly represent a linguistic inconvenience. Consider my earlier example: What if we were to refer to one war as "THE War". Wouldn't that indicate that it holds more significance in some way?
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Old 07-23-2015, 01:22 PM
 
15,162 posts, read 15,992,939 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Mysterious Benefactor View Post
Your analogy is a poor one. "9/11" designates a unique event on a specific day. "THE Holocaust" was not particularly unique as a holocaust. Moreover, calling it "The Nazi holocaust" would hardly represent a linguistic inconvenience. Consider my earlier example: What if we were to refer to one war as "THE War". Wouldn't that indicate that it holds more significance in some way?
I don't think it's a matter of significance, but maybe familiarity in a particular time period. Referring to one war as "THE War" would be very confusing because there have been many wars within the lifetime of most people alive today.* But for most people, the only holocaust they know anything about is the Nazi Holocaust.

You don't hear people say "the genocide" because without another descriptor it's unclear whether they're talking about the Armenian genocide, the Bosnian genocide or the Rwandan genocide.


*Although when I was a kid, everyone in my parents' generation referred to WWII as "the war." If they were talking about the Korean or Vietnam wars, they used those descriptors.
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Old 07-23-2015, 01:24 PM
 
1,562 posts, read 1,055,955 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by badlander View Post
As an non American when I hear the term The Civil War I think automatically of the war between the North and the South not the civil wars that have been fought in the UK or the USSR. The Great War or the War to end all Wars refers to the First World War.

The Holocaust was documented by film and still images and from what I read was not even beleived by the soldiers who did not enter the camps until they either saw the images or the camps first hand. It struck the people like nothing before it because it was a visual shock.
I don't know where you're from, but that's unusual. If you were to mention "The Civil War" to most people outside of the US, they would not likely assume you're referring to the American war for southern independence.

Nor can I imagine that people were any less shocked by the atrocities that took place during the Armenian holocaust or any others.
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