If the south wanted to secede now would the rest of america have any objections. (wages, soldiers)
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Secession is effectively happening already, just not entire states. Religious home schoolers have pretty much separated from mainstream society, no television, no movies, focusing on religious education and conservative attire etc. It's a growing population in the U.S.
Don't worry, I'm pretty sure the northerners who have moved down there have neither the ability not the inclination to bring Chicago or Boston winters down there.
We don't care about the winters, but don't bring Chicago or Boston politics down here.
No, it wasn't finalized with a war, Texasv White was heard 4 years after the war ended. In fact, that case couldn't have been heard prior to the end of the war, as it was centered around the sale of US bonds by the legislature during the time when Texas was part of the CSA.
Quote:
Originally Posted by eightbitguy
There is no *legal* way for a state to secede from the USA at this point in history, regardless of what arm-chair constitutionalists think.
But beyond all that, you even say it: "choosing to remove itself from the jurisdiction of the United States Constitution"... States simply do not have that choice.
You're assuming that any state that wishes to secede may only do so if granted authority by the government with which the state no longer wishes to associate, which ignores that fact that any state ready to secede will have divested itself of regard for the (oppressive) laws of the national government. A reading of the Declaration of Independence will remind you that the right of the people to determine their own political destiny stems not from common law but from natural law, over which man cannot have dominion.
Last edited by Slowpoke_TX; 07-28-2015 at 10:35 AM..
Reason: syntax
Could you cite for us those constitutions, either now or in the past, that explicitly allow secession?
No need. It is a fundamental principle of the American legal system that anything not specifically forbidden is permitted.
With that said, will you cite for us where in the Constitution secession is specifically forbidden? You can't, because the Constitution does not mention secession at all (that's why Chief Justice Chase had to invent the prohibition on secession, after the war).
New Mexico and Arizona are rightly part of Mexico so they can go back to them.
Nope, they are rightly part of the United States of America, and have been ever since the signing of the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo and the Gadsden Purchase.
Secession is effectively happening already, just not entire states. Religious home schoolers have pretty much separated from mainstream society, no television, no movies, focusing on religious education and conservative attire etc. It's a growing population in the U.S.
That has existed long for the Civil War. The Amish were doing that before anyone else was doing it.
Secession is effectively happening already, just not entire states. Religious home schoolers have pretty much separated from mainstream society, no television, no movies, focusing on religious education and conservative attire etc. It's a growing population in the U.S.
This is a great point. But it is not just conservatives btw. Look at the California and Pacific Northwest liberals who do it as well.
I have to agree that the issue nowadays is not so much a North/South divide as an urban/rural divide. The politics in the Great Plains are just as hyper-conservative as they are in the South, and there are liberal urban areas in the South that aren't that dissimilar from ones in the North.
One way to look at it is 2012's election and the subsequent petitions for state secession. In some states (including Texas and Georgia,) there were counter-petitions to allow their major cities - Austin, Atlanta, etc. - to remain in the union. All of the petitions were ignored, but it does show the disconnect between urban and rural politics, a divide that's especially prevalent in states like Georgia, Illinois, Texas, Washington, California, and New York.
That's why secession would be tricky. You'd have sizable, urban chunks of the seceding states petitioning the federal government to ensure (by force if necessary) that they can stay in the United States.
- skbl17
The notion of petitioning the federal government for permission to secede would've caused raucous laughter among the 55 delegates assembled at Independence Hall.
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