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Old 07-23-2015, 05:58 PM
 
24,952 posts, read 11,617,850 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BLAZER PROPHET View Post
Questions for you...

What is an "american wage"? Is the minimum wage one wherein a person can have a car, house, food, heathcare...? To be free of any need for assistance such as food stamps, child care...?

What is the purpose of a minimum wage? Should every single job from babysitting on up use this minimum wage?

Your post, aside from looking like a union first ad, did intrigue me and I was hoping you would expand your thoughts.
I think FDR gave the best definition of what a American wage should be-keeping in mind that we are VASTLY more wealthy overall then back then.

Quote:
In my Inaugural I laid down the simple proposition that nobody is going to starve in this country. It seems to me to be equally plain that no business which depends for existence on paying less than living wages to its workers has any right to continue in this country. By "business" I mean the whole of commerce as well as the whole of industry; by workers I mean all workers, the white collar class as well as the men in overalls; and by living wages I mean more than a bare subsistence level-I mean the wages of decent living.
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Old 07-23-2015, 06:01 PM
 
5,273 posts, read 11,913,473 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greywar View Post
I think FDR gave the best definition of what a American wage should be-keeping in mind that we are VASTLY more wealthy overall then back then.
Thank you for that. A fine guiding quote indeed and good food for thought.
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Old 07-23-2015, 06:01 PM
 
24,952 posts, read 11,617,850 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rumline View Post
Sounds good in theory, but imagine your neighborhood with 30-50% fewer options in the food service industry. Boarded up shops, all those employees now with NO job instead of a low paying one. How is that going to save us taxpayers on funding social services again?
So we've raised the minimum wage regularly in the past, where were all the massive drops then? The boarded up shops? There weren't. Please tell me why this is so different?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BLAZER PROPHET View Post
So cities and states who raise it to $15/hr is the fault of the republicans? The democrats raise it but the republicans are to blame? Please help me, how does that work again?
In a way yes. If they'd gone along with the reasonable $10.10 proposal, no one would be discussing raising it higher. Especially if we had done something sensible like pegged it to inflation then.

We're here at this $15/hr rate because of this.
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Old 07-23-2015, 06:15 PM
 
2,485 posts, read 1,765,105 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greywar View Post
So we've raised the minimum wage regularly in the past, where were all the massive drops then? The boarded up shops? There weren't. Please tell me why this is so different?



In a way yes. If they'd gone along with the reasonable $10.10 proposal, no one would be discussing raising it higher. Especially if we had done something sensible like pegged it to inflation then.

We're here at this $15/hr rate because of this.
Then deal with it. You get less support by suggesting higher minimum wage
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Old 07-23-2015, 06:18 PM
 
Location: Oregon, formerly Texas
5,242 posts, read 3,398,836 times
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As with many things, "it depends."

In Seattle, New York City, Los Angeles, San Francisco, etc... the effective minimum wage is probably already at least $11-13 an hour. Raising it to $15 isn't that big of a change. I can't imagine anyone would work at McDonald's in San Francisco for less than $12 given how much it takes to live there.

For rural America it would be disastrous.

I'm all for cities and counties making this decision, not for states or national government.

I do think that the national minimum wage should go up to $10.10 like Obama proposed, over a period of 4-7 years.

This would not be an issue if it was raised every few years OR tied to inflation. The minimum wage used to go up every 2-5 years, then after 1981 it only happened once every 8-9 years. We're currently on year 7 with no increase. With Republicans looking to remain in power in the congress for the next several years we could be looking at 10+ years with no increase - that would equal or exceed the last longest stretch which was 1997-2007.
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Old 07-23-2015, 06:21 PM
 
Location: North Idaho
2,096 posts, read 1,881,522 times
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Bad idea.

The economic result of raising the cost of unskilled and inexperienced labor is that businesses will hire fewer unskilled and inexperienced employees.

Dave
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Old 07-23-2015, 06:23 PM
 
24,952 posts, read 11,617,850 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Costaexpress View Post
Then deal with it. You get less support by suggesting higher minimum wage
Thats the issue...they dont need more support, they are winning this argument.

Theres another component I should mention to their argument, and thats if minimum wage had followed the productivity it would be over $20/hr, which means $15 is a compromise.

I think theres another way of looking at it involving businesses paying the same as a % of income that puts it over $25/hr or $30, cant recall.

As for me...shrug. The minimum wage argument to me doesn't matter, $10.10, $15, either one is not out of line. If I picked a number it would be $11 today, and pegged to inflation on a quarterly basis. I'd also argue that everyones wages should then be set to a multiple of minimum wage.....
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Old 07-23-2015, 06:25 PM
 
24,952 posts, read 11,617,850 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cnynrat View Post
Bad idea.

The economic result of raising the cost of unskilled and inexperienced labor is that businesses will hire fewer unskilled and inexperienced employees.

Dave
Thats going to happen anyways, and doesnt really matter. You could make the same argument thoughout history.

But you are hitting a critical point, we're going to start reducing employment here soon. Even without raising the wage. Whats going to happen if we hit 30 or 40% unemployment due to increasingly capable automation?
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Old 07-23-2015, 06:27 PM
 
Location: Oregon, formerly Texas
5,242 posts, read 3,398,836 times
Reputation: 8783
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cnynrat View Post
Bad idea.

The economic result of raising the cost of unskilled and inexperienced labor is that businesses will hire fewer unskilled and inexperienced employees.

Dave
By this logic the most successful economies in the world must be the ones with the lowest minimum wages.
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Old 07-23-2015, 06:33 PM
 
Location: North Idaho
2,096 posts, read 1,881,522 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redguard57 View Post
By this logic the most successful economies in the world must be the ones with the lowest minimum wages.
Successful economies are not primarily driven by unskilled, inexperienced labor. Most jobs in that category are not transportable to other countries. You can't move the guy waiting on you at McDonald's offshore.

In addition, there are many other factors involved when you start to look at business decisions to locate in one country or another. Taxes, transportation, infrastructure, raw materials, availability of skilled labor just to name a few.

Dave
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