Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
You have got your blinders on. It's happening now. U.S. poverty rates higher, safety net weaker than in peer countries | Economic Policy Institute
and from that:and if you look at the top of the charts to see where there is the least poverty, you will find the Nordic countries which are social democracies; allowing the innovators and industrious to flourish while maintaining a solid safety net.
Oh jeez Edith, here we go again, "over there in Europe".
Why do you guys always displace Utopia to the collectivocracies "over there" in Europe. They used to do this with the "Workers Paradises" of communism, until it became painfully obvious that Heaven was a beastly sham. The vitamin guys and the herb guys do this also. Always citing some obscure unverifiable and bogus "European" university study "over there in Europe" to fluff up their claims of fountain of youth efficacy for their silly products.
Nordica IS NOT HEAVEN. Because they are not, and cannot be, as long as they trample on their citizens rights with confiscatory taxes and fees to support their nanny state boolchit. On top of which they don't need a defense budget since they are sucking off us as WE PROVIDE THE DETERRENT that keeps them from being swallowed up. So silly... Sweden. Norway. Please!
The problem with what seems to be your thinking is the assumption that government is all that stands between children and starvation - as if there is no such thing as charity.
Which, I would point out, would be exponentially increased in a free society where effective tax rates were not at 60% and we were not being raped out of our minds. And which, I would point out, would be further exponentially increased due to the good will and benevolence that would replace the defensive cynicism that permeates our culture now as the low level people use political solutions to punish those who are virtuous.
Charity would be rampant in a free society of trade and good will. It's not so bad even now under tyranny and mediocracy. Despite getting hosed by the worst among us, we still manage to be the most giving culture on Earth that sends aid to anyone and everyone, even our enemies, when a disaster strikes. Can you imagine how good it would be if we were actually free?
The problem with what seems to be your thinking is the assumption that government is all that stands between children and starvation - as if there is no such thing as charity.
That's true. The numbers are way against you on that one; we do give to charities, but the largest recipients are churches with typical budgets that include 10% or less spent on outreach. Other large charities do medical research and social advocacy. There are several charities that provide food and shelter for the homeless, but not nearly enough to pick up the burden if the government doesn't provide services and businesses refuse to pay people enough to get by on.
Oh jeez Edith, here we go again, "over there in Europe".
Why do you guys always displace Utopia to the collectivocracies "over there" in Europe. They used to do this with the "Workers Paradises" of communism, until it became painfully obvious that Heaven was a beastly sham. The vitamin guys and the herb guys do this also. Always citing some obscure unverifiable and bogus "European" university study "over there in Europe" to fluff up their claims of fountain of youth efficacy for their silly products.
Nordica IS NOT HEAVEN. Because they are not, and cannot be, as long as they trample on their citizens rights with confiscatory taxes and fees to support their nanny state boolchit. On top of which they don't need a defense budget since they are sucking off us as WE PROVIDE THE DETERRENT that keeps them from being swallowed up. So silly... Sweden. Norway. Please!
The facts and statistics point that way. As usual, all you have is unsupported opinion on your side.
This is a good thing. It basically translates to more purchasing power by common folks, which in return, will have a positive effect on businesses because more people will have money to spend
Increasing the minimum wage will also likely take off people from welfare since they won't meet the income requirement.
Especially in CA bay area where housing is ridiculous (average cost is 3000 for a 2 br/2ba apt.... so you have to shell out 800 per month to have a room and a roommate) but minimum wage is just 10.50
They require a lot of skills and labor for peanuts. In todaus workforce, you have to kiss ass to get a raise or promotion. Simply being diligent in your work would hardly give you your appropriate raise...why do you think CEOs who make bad decisions that affects not only the company but the economy still get paid millions of dollars regardless the lack of skill and talent?
Never also forget that the money used to bail these erring corporations are the publics money. Private corporations are among the biggest welfare receipients, yet anti wage hike don't seem to complain about that.
Facts and statistics are funny things aren't they? Always seeming to prove what we want when carefully collected and arranged.
That is such a lame argument. Trying to dismiss information because some people twist information. So lets not use actual data, lets just use conservative economic theory that hasn't panned out in the real world. But who cares? Real world data might be manipulated, so let's just use your opinion instead. After all, you dish out clever insults and make pronouncements that almost sound factual. That must mean you know what you are talking about, right? You wouldn't post falsehoods on the Internet, would you? You can't support your opinion and you try to undermine others' opinions based on hard data by dismissing the data (also for unsupported reasons).
Won't happen. In a free society that is free of artifical theft-enabled social support of bad habits, the bad habits will disappear.
People behave very responsibly when the pain of not doing so is high.
Hey Marc, could you please give us an example of a "free society", or is it just an abstract construct designed to support a libertarian ideology? I'm not sure it's even possible- if you understand Dunbar's number then it's possible to have a society without laws but only if it is a very small group where everyone has some relationship to everyone else in the group. Once the group membership exceeds 150 the group either breaks up into new groups or laws are developed to keep order because you can't count on strangers to do what is best for the group. As a means of control, Grandma's finger wagging only works in very small groups where everyone knows who Grandma is
There are several charities that provide food and shelter for the homeless
Several charities? There are food panties in almost every community in the US, plus a "Hunters For The Hungry" program in most states. Let's not forget that individuals and families practice a lot of what I will call "direct charity" - giving directly to those in need.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ReachTheBeach
but not nearly enough to pick up the burden if the government doesn't provide services and businesses refuse to pay people enough to get by on.
People would have a lot more to donate to charitable organizations if they weren't being taxed to death in order to pay for social programs. Businesses could afford to pay more if they weren't being taxed and saddled with ever-increasing compliance costs.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
