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Old 07-23-2015, 06:33 PM
 
5,273 posts, read 11,907,338 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greywar View Post
So we've raised the minimum wage regularly in the past, where were all the massive drops then? The boarded up shops? There weren't. Please tell me why this is so different?



In a way yes. If they'd gone along with the reasonable $10.10 proposal, no one would be discussing raising it higher. Especially if we had done something sensible like pegged it to inflation then.

We're here at this $15/hr rate because of this.
Your argument falls flat. The dems had 100% control of congress and the executive branch and when the issue came up they raised the min wage 3 years in a row to where they wanted it. Nothing the gop could do. We have exactly what the dems wanted. This is all their baby.
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Old 07-23-2015, 06:34 PM
 
Location: North Idaho
2,095 posts, read 1,879,515 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greywar View Post
Thats going to happen anyways, and doesnt really matter. You could make the same argument thoughout history.
And people have made the same argument throughout history and continued to ignore the higher unemployment that results from higher minimum wages.

Quote:
Originally Posted by greywar View Post
But you are hitting a critical point, we're going to start reducing employment here soon. Even without raising the wage. Whats going to happen if we hit 30 or 40% unemployment due to increasingly capable automation?
Perhaps, but people have been talking about that for a long time as well, and in general the projections have not come to pass.
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Old 07-23-2015, 06:35 PM
 
3,460 posts, read 1,980,913 times
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I USED To be all for raising the minimum wage.

But now, i think they should leave it alone. WHY?
1} It rarely is above poverty by much, so it still keeps people at poverty.

2} IF it had stayed, say, at the 1960 rate {$1.00/hour}, people nowadays would flat out REFUSE to work for that, so a company{ies} would HAVE to pay a "more livable wage" in order to even get employees who would work at all. SO the "minimum" might fluctuate depending on what city one was in,and the COL there.

Minimum Wage Rates, 1955–present

3} It is just a way to keep people enslaved. It is worse than surfdom {where surfs paid most of their goods/services to the gov't {IE: KING}}; or slavery {some slaves were paid miniscule wages , but never allowed to buy their freedom as their "price" always went up when the slave reached the saved amount to buy freedom}. MANY minimum wage earners never "get to buy their freedom".

so, I think it should have stayed where it was.

Maybe it will weed out companies who DO have their employees interests at heart, but I doubt it.

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Old 07-23-2015, 06:36 PM
 
24,885 posts, read 11,605,138 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BLAZER PROPHET View Post
Your argument falls flat. The dems had 100% control of congress and the executive branch and when the issue came up they raised the min wage 3 years in a row to where they wanted it. Nothing the gop could do. We have exactly what the dems wanted. This is all their baby.
Probably the best overview of the "3 year" myth:

https://538refugees.wordpress.com/20...majority-myth/
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Old 07-23-2015, 06:38 PM
 
5,273 posts, read 11,907,338 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greywar View Post
Thats going to happen anyways, and doesnt really matter. You could make the same argument thoughout history.

But you are hitting a critical point, we're going to start reducing employment here soon. Even without raising the wage. Whats going to happen if we hit 30 or 40% unemployment due to increasingly capable automation?
And that's the problem. At some point in time, min wage workers give way to automation. That gives way to unemployment. That gives way to an increase in social services. That gives way to increased deficit spending and/or higher taxes. Then where are we?
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Old 07-23-2015, 06:40 PM
 
5,273 posts, read 11,907,338 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greywar View Post
Probably the best overview of the "3 year" myth:

https://538refugees.wordpress.com/20...majority-myth/
That is simply untrue. The gop (btw, I am not a republican) had no cloture. It was filibuster proof. We have exactly what the dems wanted. To try and pin it all on the right is a very weak and false argument. There are timex when oeople have to take accountability and not blame theur actions on others. When that happens then true comoromise for the good of all can take place. And that is the primary reason this country is so screwed up.
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Old 07-23-2015, 06:42 PM
 
24,885 posts, read 11,605,138 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cnynrat View Post
And people have made the same argument throughout history and continued to ignore the higher unemployment that results from higher minimum wages.
Please provide a reference demonstrating that, because from the data I have seen it really hasn't occurred that way. Theres LOTS of "OMG it will raise unemployment", but they tend to be opinion pieces. Every time I look at the factual data I can't correlate unemployment to minimum wage increases. And thats kind of perturbing. Because theres LOTS of these opinion pieces, and blogs representing that, whereas the actual real data does not.



Quote:
Perhaps, but people have been talking about that for a long time as well, and in general the projections have not come to pass.
The kind of automation is changing. Its moving from a machine that does repetitive tasks to both general purpose robotics, and massively capable expert systems. We've always been smarter then the automation, but this new stuff coming takes us on on our remaining abilities pretty effectively.

Stuff happening in the labs is like freaking magic. And thats going to come out to the public eventually. Most people think self driving vehicles are 5 years away. And thats a massive hit in employment right there.
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Old 07-23-2015, 06:45 PM
 
24,885 posts, read 11,605,138 times
Reputation: 11620
Quote:
Originally Posted by BLAZER PROPHET View Post
That is simply untrue. The gop (btw, I am not a republican) had no cloture. It was filibuster proof. We have exactly what the dems wanted. To try and pin it all on the right is a very weak and false argument.

Meh, I dont think you can pin it all there. But when 98% of the right votes against it, you arent passing it with 95% of the left voting for it.

Heres an example:

Congressional Bills and Votes - NYTimes.com
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Old 07-23-2015, 06:52 PM
 
2,485 posts, read 1,764,182 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greywar View Post
Please provide a reference demonstrating that, because from the data I have seen it really hasn't occurred that way. Theres LOTS of "OMG it will raise unemployment", but they tend to be opinion pieces. Every time I look at the factual data I can't correlate unemployment to minimum wage increases. And thats kind of perturbing. Because theres LOTS of these opinion pieces, and blogs representing that, whereas the actual real data does not.





The kind of automation is changing. Its moving from a machine that does repetitive tasks to both general purpose robotics, and massively capable expert systems. We've always been smarter then the automation, but this new stuff coming takes us on on our remaining abilities pretty effectively.

Stuff happening in the labs is like freaking magic. And thats going to come out to the public eventually. Most people think self driving vehicles are 5 years away. And thats a massive hit in employment right there.
There will be jobs to design, maintain, repair, and improve these vehicles. There will be probably amenities for these vehicles, crew required for these amenities, apps, customer service, information systems, etc.
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Old 07-23-2015, 07:35 PM
 
Location: Florida
4,379 posts, read 2,426,594 times
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Seniors will be the long term losers when the inevitable inflation reduces buying power of pensions, 401Ks and savings. Social Security increases are based on bogus cost of living figures that exclude essentials like food and fuel.
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