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Old 07-23-2015, 10:53 PM
 
210 posts, read 183,953 times
Reputation: 126

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zen88 View Post
Back in the 1980s, I had a job in a program for needy youths by the NYS Dept of Labor, and I helped the custodians clean schools over the summer. I did this three summers. One year, in July or Aug, the minimum wage was raised. Since the dept of labor program was budgeted for the lower wages, my hours were cut back. I made the same money, not a dime more, and less work was done, since I went home 2 or 3 hrs earlier each day for the rest of that summer. You can be sure no additional people were hired. I agree with the notion that the 'employer can afford it', but that doesn't change the realities and facts that a higher minimum wage, not matter how well intentioned, usually results in less employment for those who need it most. Why did this new thing only apply to fast-food workers? A close friend of mine works as a driver, and could use the $5 an hour raise just as much as any fast food worker.
And what if your driver friend got fired and while his buddy got an extra $5. Raising min wage will help a few while hurting more!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Liberal policies just screw everything up. We are living it now! Get the f.u.c.k out of people lives you idiot liberals!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The free market has raised billions standards of living. Liberals just want to shove them back down.

Take the plight of the modern day african american. They are the most hurt by liberals, they get excited by things that keep them shackled to welfare, obamaphone etc.



PS how many do you know who actually make minimum wage who are past college age. cursory look at those would scare the s h i t out of me. Momma with 6 kids from 4 dads.....................hahahaha.
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Old 07-23-2015, 11:46 PM
 
444 posts, read 673,338 times
Reputation: 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by greywar View Post
I think FDR gave the best definition of what a American wage should be-keeping in mind that we are VASTLY more wealthy overall then back then.
I really liked your quote. Every so often, it seems there is a new minimum wage thread.

Anyway...

There are at least two very true arguments.

1.) business shouldn't exist if they are not able to pay their workers a livable wage
2.) the costs of living will spiral out of control if minimum wage goes up

I think that one of the biggest issues is that we see rents go up when minimum wage goes up. A lot of people are unaware, but we are in a time where the average person spends 50% of their income on housing. If your pizza goes up $8, yes your going to buy it less and the pizza place will have less workers because less pizza is going to be made, etc.

But in the grand scheme of things, $8 on a pizza isn't really that big of a deal unless you eat a new pizza every day. For the most part, the increase is going to be a very small portion to the average persons income. It may cut into the total profit of the store owner, he may even close his shop. But then, you will just buy your pizza somewhere else.

The real issue is that housing is so expensive. If your landlord raises your rent 10%, you are going to notice it. Landlords are very good about jacking rent (apartment complexes and private landlords). Considering current health and safety laws and laws regarding child safety, there are limitations on how slummy of a place a parent can live before their child is taken away. It brings on the need for section 8 housing and such.

Minimum wage is not the issue, housing is the issue. Provide cheap housing that costs 20% of minimum wage and meet health and safety laws for a family of 2-3, and BINGO. You've solved the living wage problem improved the lives of America as a whole.
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Old 07-24-2015, 12:05 AM
 
444 posts, read 673,338 times
Reputation: 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cnynrat View Post
Perhaps, but people have been talking about that for a long time as well, and in general the projections have not come to pass.
For a very long time, this has been the prediction. And yes, it hasn't been seen. The fundamental problem is that it is almost here. If you raise minimum wage enough, places like pizza hut and mc donalds are going to be 3D printing food. Places like home depo and lowes are considering replacing employees that make roughly $15-$20/ hour with a robot. Amazon is trying to use drones to deliver goods, and robots to find the goods. Think about restaurants that allow you to pay at the table (ex chilies). Now, a server spends less time with customers. The servers can now spend less time waiting on people, meaning less servers are necessary. Takeout is becoming very popular, and eating in in the future might consist of ordering from your mobile device. Which again, would mean less servers. A lot of people talk about farming, but it's also heavily automated and getting more so everyday. One person can collect thousands of pounds of tomatoes and potatoes by just driving a truck.

BTW, server jobs can be off shored. They just require a cheap enough robot and decent wifi to interact with customers. Think about, surgeons can operate on you remotely. Why can't Mc Donald's hire someone in India to operate a robot to interact with you?

The future is changing....
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Old 07-24-2015, 12:17 AM
 
444 posts, read 673,338 times
Reputation: 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zen88 View Post
Why not raise it to $30 an hr then? Where do we draw the line? After all, it's unfair that the cashier at Wendy's can't afford the same clothes/car/home/jewelry/vacations that a more skilled or brighter person can. Especially if they have the right connections.
Dude, your comparing the wrong thing. That brighter more skilled person should still be making more than minimum wage. If minimum wage goes up, so should the salary of the brighter more skilled person. The problem is that the brighter more skilled persons wages are not going up either. *please note the word brighter*
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Old 07-24-2015, 01:24 AM
 
Location: South Carolina
2,792 posts, read 1,678,347 times
Reputation: 1725
$15 is only good for big cities where it is really expensive to live. Everywhere else raising min wage in increments up to $11 or $12 is a good wage.
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Old 07-24-2015, 01:56 AM
 
Location: Washington state
4,686 posts, read 2,308,736 times
Reputation: 13712
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathguy View Post
It's because:

1) You live in an area that has had a cost of living surge. Many parts of the US you could still rent a 1 bedroom apt. for $500 which is less than what the min wage has increased.

2) What changed is that the abnormal period post-war when anybody could make good money is gone. Between jobs off-shoring and and 6-million illegals suppressing the wages in the blue collar labor market how are you confused?

P.S. The argument that illegals don't suppress blue collar wages is so offensively ignorant that making it is just insane.
There isn't anywhere in the US where you can rent an apartment now while making minimum wage. All areas of the US have had a cost of living surge. And everything has gone up except minimum wage. The problem is, one way or the other, you are going to have to subsidize low wage earners. It just depends on where you want to subsidize. You either subsidize education, or housing, or welfare, or food stamps, or raise the minimum wage. Your choice. Right now we're subsidizing welfare and food stamps.

One thing we can do is quit bailing out businesses who continue to pay their CEOs millions of dollars for wrecking their companies. I'm all for capitalism, but a lot of CEOs aren't just making a fair salary, they're making an obscene profit all out of proportion to what they do and making the rest of us use our tax money to subsidize their employees. It's easy to say those employees should get another job, but when virtually every business does the same thing, where are those employees going to go?



Quote:
Originally Posted by candycanechick View Post
I really liked your quote. Every so often, it seems there is a new minimum wage thread.

Anyway...

There are at least two very true arguments.

1.) business shouldn't exist if they are not able to pay their workers a livable wage
2.) the costs of living will spiral out of control if minimum wage goes up

I think that one of the biggest issues is that we see rents go up when minimum wage goes up. A lot of people are unaware, but we are in a time where the average person spends 50% of their income on housing. If your pizza goes up $8, yes your going to buy it less and the pizza place will have less workers because less pizza is going to be made, etc.

But in the grand scheme of things, $8 on a pizza isn't really that big of a deal unless you eat a new pizza every day. For the most part, the increase is going to be a very small portion to the average persons income. It may cut into the total profit of the store owner, he may even close his shop. But then, you will just buy your pizza somewhere else.

The real issue is that housing is so expensive. If your landlord raises your rent 10%, you are going to notice it. Landlords are very good about jacking rent (apartment complexes and private landlords). Considering current health and safety laws and laws regarding child safety, there are limitations on how slummy of a place a parent can live before their child is taken away. It brings on the need for section 8 housing and such.

Minimum wage is not the issue, housing is the issue. Provide cheap housing that costs 20% of minimum wage and meet health and safety laws for a family of 2-3, and BINGO. You've solved the living wage problem improved the lives of America as a whole.
You are correct on one thing: it's a housing issue. But rents do not go up when minimum wage goes up. Rents were already up, well before minimum wage went up.

In 1980, the house - yes, house - I rented cost $330/month. By 1989, that rent was going to go up to $550. In 9 years, that isn't really that much of an increase, but we had had wage and raise freezes where I worked and my rent going to $550 was what pushed me out of the rental market to living in my truck. And rents still really hadn't started their astronomical climb up yet. You can only imagine what it's doing to people now.

Look at it this way: we need money to circulate in this country. If everyone hangs on to their money, what happens? If you don't spend your paycheck on anything but groceries and rent, the only people who make money are grocery stores and landlords. If people quit eating out, for example, because they can't afford it, restaurants go out of business and people get laid off anyway, even if you don't raise minimum wage.

People are currently spending 50% and more of their take home pay on housing and that's ridiculous. Just suppose you could magically allow everyone one month's free housing in December. What do you think would happen? Besides people getting their bills paid, that would probably generate the best Christmas shopping season in the last 20 years. And if the merchants are busy, they hire. The economy gets a kick start.

This is a real simple way of looking at things. Thirty years ago, there were 10 families in Smithville. Each family made $40,000 annually. That' a combined wealth of $400,000. Each family bought a $300 refrigerator from Joe's Appliances. Joe sold $3000 worth of refrigerators that year.

Now look at today. There are still 10 families in Smithville, but look at how skewed the incomes are now. Using that same $400,000, 2 families are making $120,000 annually. The other 8 families are only making $20,000 a year on minimum wage, say $10/hour. They can't afford to buy fridges any more. Joe quadruples the price of his refrigerators, but even at that, he still only sells 2 of them to the families making $120,000 per year. Joe only sells $2400 refrigerators this year.

Do you see what I'm saying? If minimum wage is raised, that's extra money. That extra money isn't going to just sit somewhere. It's going to circulate through the businesses and while those businesses will be paying their employees more, they should also be making more money because people are spending and buying more.
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Old 07-24-2015, 04:18 AM
 
210 posts, read 183,953 times
Reputation: 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by rodentraiser View Post
There isn't anywhere in the US where you can rent an apartment now while making minimum wage. All areas of the US have had a cost of living surge. And everything has gone up except minimum wage. The problem is, one way or the other, you are going to have to subsidize low wage earners. It just depends on where you want to subsidize. You either subsidize education, or housing, or welfare, or food stamps, or raise the minimum wage. Your choice. Right now we're subsidizing welfare and food stamps.

One thing we can do is quit bailing out businesses who continue to pay their CEOs millions of dollars for wrecking their companies. I'm all for capitalism, but a lot of CEOs aren't just making a fair salary, they're m

People are currently spending 50% and more of their take home pay on housing and that's ridiculous. Just suppose you could magically allow everyone one month's free housing in December. What do you think would happen? Besides people getting their bills paid, that would probably generate the best Christmas shopping season in the last 20 years. And if the merchants are busy, they hire. The economy gets a kick start.

.

VOODO majic- liberals are hilarious and silly at the same time and dont realiz it................hahahaha!



CEO who make millions and wreck their companies do suffer consequences. Try being a CEO who is paid obscene profits and wreck your company. They are shunned and people put voodoo magic spells on them.
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Old 07-24-2015, 05:34 AM
 
Location: NC Piedmont
3,810 posts, read 2,643,814 times
Reputation: 6050
Quote:
Originally Posted by StinkieMcCain View Post
Try being a CEO who is paid obscene profits and wreck your company. They are shunned and people put voodoo magic spells on them.
OK. Where do I sign up?
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Old 07-24-2015, 05:45 AM
 
Location: Europe
2,731 posts, read 1,959,313 times
Reputation: 4148
There is no reason to pay poorly for anyones hours. I support minime working hours per month and minime pay for being something sane to make living by working. What would be minime which would be enough is another question. Depends what is level of living costs.


Everyones working hour lasts 60 minutes, appreciate it.
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Old 07-24-2015, 05:59 AM
 
Location: Prepperland
13,129 posts, read 9,217,004 times
Reputation: 8990
If I were in the government, I would certainly advocate higher minimum wages.
What a great way to have a TAX INCREASE without a political fight!
And still get the accolades - - -
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