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Old 07-23-2015, 03:31 PM
 
5,273 posts, read 11,910,304 times
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Many cities/states are moving to a jump to $15 per hour as a minimum wage.

The general arguments for are that we need to move on from the original intent of it being a pay for a second income, high school part time job, low skilled work... and make it a full living wage job where an individual can fully support themselves.

The pros are that it makes every job a full living wage one and will cut back on the need for public assistance, allow anyone to possibly buy a house...

The main cons are that it could cause some forms of inflation sparks, unemploy people as it may force small businesses to raise the costs if goods and services to cover salaries...

How think ye?
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Old 07-23-2015, 03:40 PM
 
Location: NC Piedmont
3,807 posts, read 2,639,044 times
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I am for it. The trouble is that businesses use the stepping stone job argument that might make sense in the summer and on weekends for late night weekday shifts year around. Maybe teens will have a harder time finding work, but when they finish whatever level of school they attain and go to work, they will make enough to support themselves. It does make some businesses harder to make a profit at, but if part of you business plan is taking advantage of employees, I have little sympathy. It was a bad plan.
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Old 07-23-2015, 03:58 PM
 
Location: Sinking in the Great Salt Lake
12,901 posts, read 18,450,622 times
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I think lawmaker's hearts are in the right place when they pass these things but I think it will backfire and cause unintended negative consequences.

Unfortunately in the human world... if everybody was rich, nobody would be rich. We are a competitive species and competition inevitably creates winners and losers. If you try to make everyone a winner, you end up with a bunch of 30-something kids living in your basement. Did we learn nothing from the Self Esteem movement?

Minimum wage jobs are and have always been low status crap jobs. Increasing the benefits of working a crap job is nowhere near as helpful and empowering as creating new less crappy jobs for people to move up into.

And if corporations are abusing the minimum wage system (as they obviously are) there are better ways to handle it, like increased corporate taxation which can be funneled into welfare or community projects that benefit the entire community.
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Old 07-23-2015, 04:11 PM
 
Location: In a chartreuse microbus
3,844 posts, read 5,105,836 times
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Here's a real-life example of what is happening in Seattle:

Seattle sees fallout from $15 minimum wage, as other cities follow suit | Fox News


From the article:

Evidence is surfacing that some workers are asking their bosses for fewer hours as their wages rise Ė in a bid to keep overall income down so they donít lose public subsidies for things like food, child care and rent.
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Old 07-23-2015, 04:12 PM
 
1,891 posts, read 1,133,521 times
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Just changing the actual minimum wage dollar amount would not really change anything. If it were to be implemented across the board, changing just the dollar amount means that within several years, the cost of everything else is just going to balance it back out to where $15 is no longer a living wage. The jobs that are currently at minimum wage are not just going to magically increase in intrinsic value to society, so the fact that $15 is NOW a living wage will not stick, very quickly $15 will become a non-living wage. The only thing this change is going to do is cause inflation. Yay.

What *might* help is if we instituted a policy of enforcing hourly salary minimums as a percentage of profits in relation to number of employees. Force companies to use a higher percentage of their profits as wage payments. That wouldn't necessarily bring the minimum up to $15, but it would bring it up some, and bring it up in such a way that inflation wouldn't necessarily compensate. However, enforcing it would require a lot of oversight, and probably cause other problems...

Basically just moving the minimum wage to a magic number isn't really going to do anything to help, and if any government is instituting it, it's JUST to appease lower economic class folks. It's not going to actually help them. It's just going to shut them up, for a little bit. It's a little insulting to the lower classes, really.
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Old 07-23-2015, 04:23 PM
 
Location: Lake Grove
2,753 posts, read 1,796,048 times
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Back in the 1980s, I had a job in a program for needy youths by the NYS Dept of Labor, and I helped the custodians clean schools over the summer. I did this three summers. One year, in July or Aug, the minimum wage was raised. Since the dept of labor program was budgeted for the lower wages, my hours were cut back. I made the same money, not a dime more, and less work was done, since I went home 2 or 3 hrs earlier each day for the rest of that summer. You can be sure no additional people were hired. I agree with the notion that the 'employer can afford it', but that doesn't change the realities and facts that a higher minimum wage, not matter how well intentioned, usually results in less employment for those who need it most. Why did this new thing only apply to fast-food workers? A close friend of mine works as a driver, and could use the $5 an hour raise just as much as any fast food worker.
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Old 07-23-2015, 04:25 PM
 
5,273 posts, read 11,910,304 times
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Here is a thought I had from talking to the owner of my local pizza parlor...

Currently he pays staff $10/hr. His large Canadian Bacon pizza I thrive on cost me $20. If his employment costs raise 60% (adding in 10% to cover additional payroll taxes...) and assuming no other cost increases (which there will be), the cost for that pizza rises to $28-32. Will I buy it at that amount? Well, maybe. But I will either buy it less or try and find a substitute for it. This same example covers any small business person. How will they respond?

And for small to medium size businesses selling non food goods, how will they now compete with Amazon or other on line retailers?
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Old 07-23-2015, 04:32 PM
 
Location: Where the sun always shines
1,866 posts, read 2,416,510 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chango View Post
Unfortunately in the human world... if everybody was rich, nobody would be rich. We are a competitive species and competition inevitably creates winners and losers.

Minimum wage jobs are and have always been low status crap jobs. Increasing the benefits of working a crap job is nowhere near as helpful and empowering as creating new less crappy jobs for people to move up into.

.
This is basically the gist of it. I always say, minimum wage should be a number that inspires you go out and make more. Either by educating urself, or learning a batter trade. Most people that are non teens working minimum wage, when u talk to them, you realize they cant do much more
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Old 07-23-2015, 04:38 PM
 
5,273 posts, read 11,910,304 times
Reputation: 5750
Quote:
Originally Posted by sirron View Post
Here's a real-life example of what is happening in Seattle:

Seattle sees fallout from $15 minimum wage, as other cities follow suit | Fox News


From the article:

Evidence is surfacing that some workers are asking their bosses for fewer hours as their wages rise Ė in a bid to keep overall income down so they donít lose public subsidies for things like food, child care and rent.
In the Portland area (my domain) rent is out of control high. When landlords see a 50% increase in the minimum wage I would suppose this will spike rents. I wonder if this will cause a demand for rent controls and that fight might entail.

Another thought... what about the people currently making $15 - 18 per hour. Since inflation will spike, their cost of living takes a hard hit as their pay isn't increasing under law. They may suffer the most.
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Old 07-23-2015, 04:46 PM
 
5,273 posts, read 11,910,304 times
Reputation: 5750
Quote:
Originally Posted by pkbab5 View Post
Just changing the actual minimum wage dollar amount would not really change anything. If it were to be implemented across the board, changing just the dollar amount means that within several years, the cost of everything else is just going to balance it back out to where $15 is no longer a living wage. The jobs that are currently at minimum wage are not just going to magically increase in intrinsic value to society, so the fact that $15 is NOW a living wage will not stick, very quickly $15 will become a non-living wage. The only thing this change is going to do is cause inflation. Yay.

What *might* help is if we instituted a policy of enforcing hourly salary minimums as a percentage of profits in relation to number of employees. Force companies to use a higher percentage of their profits as wage payments. That wouldn't necessarily bring the minimum up to $15, but it would bring it up some, and bring it up in such a way that inflation wouldn't necessarily compensate. However, enforcing it would require a lot of oversight, and probably cause other problems...

Basically just moving the minimum wage to a magic number isn't really going to do anything to help, and if any government is instituting it, it's JUST to appease lower economic class folks. It's not going to actually help them. It's just going to shut them up, for a little bit. It's a little insulting to the lower classes, really.
Since I can't give you a reputation from my Android device, nice post.

For me, I'd like to see a minimum wage of $9.50/hr with a 2% cost of living increase yearly to it.
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