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Old 08-31-2015, 04:11 PM
 
6,319 posts, read 7,224,411 times
Reputation: 11987

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Quote:
Originally Posted by augiedogie View Post
For those who want to reduce the prison population and reduce repeat offenses, I have a simple solution. Make prison worse, and make most murders a death sentence. If someone ends another's life, they don't deserve another bite of food or a breath of air. Imagine how many cells we could open up if all the murders were gone. Give them two appeals and then they're gone. Second, make prison much worse. No TV, No sitting around for eight hours. More isolation of prisoners from one another, more work. Make it bad enough that most have no interest in ever going back.
erm....it already IS that bad...(doesn't work, and just makes inmates meaner)

Sitting around for 8 hours is ABSOLUTE HELL if you cant go outside or find ways to occupy yourself.

Also may I suggest, all of this would be utterly disgraceful, if it were your little darling child headed to the pokey.

All of a sudden the Understanding and Excuses would appear like magic, and the poor widdle kiddie needs help not punishment.

Those people in jail - sure, some of them are Vile beyond words, and don't even deserve oxygen - but the overwhelming majority are poor/drugaddicted/homeless/utterly abandoned/abused and prison is simply not the right place for them as it just makes their problems WORSE.

And I include no longer being viewed as human, in this.

We need a bit more compassion. There but for the Grace of God, go I.
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Old 09-02-2015, 03:27 PM
 
4,278 posts, read 5,167,428 times
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For most, if you are sent to jail for drug crimes, you were a repeat offender or dealer.
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Old 09-04-2015, 09:55 PM
 
Location: London
12,275 posts, read 7,113,068 times
Reputation: 13660
Quote:
Originally Posted by Caleb Longstreet View Post
I got a son who is a prison guard in a supermax. Trust me, for he most part, they all belong. The stories are frightening. Their crimes even more so. As it relates to lower security level prisons, you might have some valid points but, for the federal pens, state higher level pens, they are a very necessary and vital component of our judicial system and they get it right way, way, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more than they ever get it wrong. The discovery channel can make anyone cry over a few mistakes BUT,

Make no mistake, most belong there for a very, very, veeeeeeery long time.

My son says you have to see them to believe it. From shoving paper towel rolls up their rears for sexual release to stabbing other inmates with sharpened plastics, fence hardware, broom hardware, and needles made from god knows dipped in fecal matter (he says they are incredibly clever at weapons making) to jabbing another inmates eye out with two stiff fingers...for fun, ......you are all wrong. You have to watch them like a hawk.

As he puts it, "it's adult daycare except these adults can and might possibly kill you. No Shiite".

if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, it's USUALLY a.....duck. Don't feel sorry for them. The murderers are usually in there because they lost it at a family picnic or some other such nonsense (wife caught with another man, husband caught with another man, etc).....until one digs deeper. Then, you find out the signs of societal rage became apparent much earlier. They were just never identified when they were younger. Until one guy killed four relatives.....with his bare hands.......cuts everyone's hair now as a prison barber, is a nice guy but always so quiet no one is quite sure that he won't explode again.

At 2:30 in the morning he saw one just staring. Watched him all night making the rounds. He never made a sound. He sat for 8 hours watching the guards. Never moved. Just stared. He was as comfortable as a man in a lazy boy watching TV. Except, no TV, radio, magazine, nothing.

They are real. They do exist. They are deadly, They know it, and in quite a few cases are comfortable with the decisions they made in life. They simply do not care and they care even less, if possible, that anyone knows it. Some are so cold and lifeless they spook you (guy staring all night). Others are so whacked they hit on anyone and anything with a pulse. They would literally have sex with a broom or mop handle for hours if you let them and then beat somewone with it if given half a chance minutes later.

Some are simply terrifying to watch. Scary, scary types you do NOT want to meet on a street. It's not a shock that there are always openings for guards.

Prison has its place. We need it. It keeps people like this away from all of us. You don't want the majority of these folks on the street again. Ever.

Supermax, as in beyond maximum security, is a totally different story. Supermax prisons are like the Ivy League of prisons lol. In minimum or medium security prisons, you see more people who are at most, a danger to themselves. Not to others.

Last edited by ohhwanderlust; 09-04-2015 at 10:03 PM..
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Old 10-04-2015, 12:38 AM
 
Location: Oceania
8,610 posts, read 7,870,436 times
Reputation: 8318
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDusty View Post
...

Works for what specifically?

And as is, I already think what you said is complete crap. A murderer can actually still be a murderer even if you chop their nuts off. In fact, a rapist can still be a rapist without genitals. The logistics change but without any behavioral modification, castration wouldn't do any good.

Besides, castration is barbaric. We should be moving away from that, not back toward it.

We are dealing with barbarians, how do we act but barbaric?


I need to go back and read this entire thread to get the gist of it all.
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Old 10-04-2015, 01:00 AM
 
Location: Oceania
8,610 posts, read 7,870,436 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markg91359 View Post
This is a very interesting discussion. I think almost everyone out there would like to avoid incarcerating people if there is a way to get them to stop anti-social behavior without putting them behind bars. If it would do nothing else, it would reduce costs to the taxpayer.

The problem is there is simply no quick or easy fix to this problem. If there was, we probably would have found it by now.

People who end up in prison for non-violent offenses usually fit into categories. Some committed drug offenses during the past and were charged in federal court. For a long time, mandatory sentencing guidelines guaranteed many of these offenders long years of incarceration even if they had a totally clean criminal record before they committed the crime. These people probably should be released. Some are repeat drunk drivers who have caused accidents involving injury to others. I'd be in favor of keeping them out of prison if there were someway to guarantee they never drove a motor vehicle again. Unfortunately, that's a virtually impossibility in our society. Others have committed crimes like embezzlement. These people almost never go to prison for any real length of time UNLESS their embezzlement is a large one. People should consider the case of Bernie Madoff. He never once used violence against any other person. Yet, he destroyed the retirement savings of literally hundreds of people. Don't try to tell me his crime is less serious than that of a bank robber. The truth is that its much greater than that of even a bank robber who held a gun to his victims. How about a sex criminal who is 35 years old and convinces a 14 year old girl to have sex with him? That doesn't meet the definition of a "violent crime" for some people. Yet, I would argue such a person belongs in prison for some period of time. How about a burglar who burglarizes businesses at night? He never harms anyone physically. However, he doesn't quit and he is an expensive nuisance that will keep on stealing and breaking things until he is incarcerated.

There are many complexities in our criminal justice system and it is easy to generalize. I submit that most of our judges are not idiots. The people who are incarcerated are there for a reason.

I think there are some things that need to be looked at. If drug and alcohol treatment can keep people from reoffending than it probably makes sense to have an offender, on probation, doing this treatment instead of serving time in prison. Remember though, that many such offenders who are in prison are there because they failed to cooperate when the court offered them the alternative of probation and treatment outside of a correctional facility.

My greatest concern is that the number of people in facilities is going to increase. In this "have/have not" world of ours, I expect the numbers of the poor to increase. As poverty increases, I suspect we'll see more property crime and drug crime. People will want these offenders "off the street" and "locked up". Building a "more just world" has connotations that extend outside of the criminal justice system.
Room 101 would modify their behavior.
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Old 10-04-2015, 01:07 AM
 
Location: Oceania
8,610 posts, read 7,870,436 times
Reputation: 8318
Quote:
Originally Posted by donsabi View Post
The only thing America is number one in today is prisons. America has more people locked up and any other country in the world. America being America turned prisons into a profitable investment but to maximize the potential all the cells need to be occupied with as many inmates as possible. Needless to say many innocent people and those with minor offenses go to jail because it is profitable.

Prison State America: Inmates becoming corporate slaves in for-profit facilities – YouTube | Innerstanding Isness

^^^You make it sound like a hotel business.
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