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65% are there for dope. Another 10% did what they did to GET dope or about dope debts, "turf', etc, cause dope costs 100x what it would cost if it's legal. Portugal has NO dope laws, hasn't had any for a decade and they are ok. We were ok before the 1914 dope laws, too. another 5% of prisoners are in prison for gambing, prostitution, guns, etc, no harm done to anyone. Stop locking them up and you'll have 4x as much room for the people who DO steal or harm others.
This according to a survey conducted with 1,000 prisoners in 12 different penal institutions in 5 states. The survey also found that "I got a bum rap" and "I was framed" were the two most common reasons for being incarcerated. Of the 20% of respondents who admitted to hurting someone, 98% of them said that it was actually their victims' fault, and the respondents were merely defending themselves.
The margin of error is estimated to be in the order of 97 percent.
I think its also important to remember few go to prison on first offense unless a very serious crime. Most work their way to prison as it called by committing often a long list of crimes. called their rap sheet that is consider in sentencing.
are you complaining because you want to commit a crime and sell dope without getting lock up, or are you complaining because they did a good job catching the criminals.
I got a son who is a prison guard in a supermax. Trust me, for he most part, they all belong. The stories are frightening. Their crimes even more so. As it relates to lower security level prisons, you might have some valid points but, for the federal pens, state higher level pens, they are a very necessary and vital component of our judicial system and they get it right way, way, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more than they ever get it wrong. The discovery channel can make anyone cry over a few mistakes BUT,
Make no mistake, most belong there for a very, very, veeeeeeery long time.
My son says you have to see them to believe it. From shoving paper towel rolls up their rears for sexual release to stabbing other inmates with sharpened plastics, fence hardware, broom hardware, and needles made from god knows dipped in fecal matter (he says they are incredibly clever at weapons making) to jabbing another inmates eye out with two stiff fingers...for fun, ......you are all wrong. You have to watch them like a hawk.
As he puts it, "it's adult daycare except these adults can and might possibly kill you. No Shiite".
if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, it's USUALLY a.....duck. Don't feel sorry for them. The murderers are usually in there because they lost it at a family picnic or some other such nonsense (wife caught with another man, husband caught with another man, etc).....until one digs deeper. Then, you find out the signs of societal rage became apparent much earlier. They were just never identified when they were younger. Until one guy killed four relatives.....with his bare hands.......cuts everyone's hair now as a prison barber, is a nice guy but always so quiet no one is quite sure that he won't explode again.
At 2:30 in the morning he saw one just staring. Watched him all night making the rounds. He never made a sound. He sat for 8 hours watching the guards. Never moved. Just stared. He was as comfortable as a man in a lazy boy watching TV. Except, no TV, radio, magazine, nothing.
They are real. They do exist. They are deadly, They know it, and in quite a few cases are comfortable with the decisions they made in life. They simply do not care and they care even less, if possible, that anyone knows it. Some are so cold and lifeless they spook you (guy staring all night). Others are so whacked they hit on anyone and anything with a pulse. They would literally have sex with a broom or mop handle for hours if you let them and then beat somewone with it if given half a chance minutes later.
Some are simply terrifying to watch. Scary, scary types you do NOT want to meet on a street. It's not a shock that there are always openings for guards.
Prison has its place. We need it. It keeps people like this away from all of us. You don't want the majority of these folks on the street again. Ever.
Last edited by Caleb Longstreet; 08-02-2015 at 09:11 PM..
65% are there for dope. Another 10% did what they did to GET dope or about dope debts, "turf', etc, cause dope costs 100x what it would cost if it's legal. Portugal has NO dope laws, hasn't had any for a decade and they are ok. We were ok before the 1914 dope laws, too. another 5% of prisoners are in prison for gambing, prostitution, guns, etc, no harm done to anyone. Stop locking them up and you'll have 4x as much room for the people who DO steal or harm others.
I think you'll find that I'm your ally in this debate, but your post lacks clarity and credibility. We have the largest prison population in the world, and this is a sign of our failure as a nation. Back in the 50s and 60s, it was said that the US was so much better because the Soviets threw all the people they didn't like into jail. But hey, the US is basically the new USSR, from the mass surveillance to authoritarian single party government (it pretends to be a two party state; and we're more in line with fascism than communism).
And I agree, something needs to be done about that, but you aren't going to win over the skeptics (some of whom are too close minded, which is a nice way of saying stupid, to have their opinion changed; it is what it is) with posts like this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by engineman
Prison is about behavior modification, if you don't want to do the time, don't do the crime. It is real simple.
And our system is doing that effectively? Our recidivism rate is ~50%. Clearly US prisons do not meet your criteria and you would want them to be reformed to lower recidivism and turn out people who no longer have any desire to commit crimes?
The main reason why we have so much violent crime is not because we lock people in prison, but because we let them out. Prison is crime university, where criminals go to become hardened. Sending them there for a few years is how we express our stupidity as a society. That stupidity is so overwhelming that it needs an outlet for expression. We need to do the stupidest things we possibly can. Sending people to prison, then letting them out when they're hardened criminals, fills that bill perfectly.
It depends what the purpose of prison is. We tend to conflate them all and then debate from tangential perspectives. Valid purposes could be:
1) Punishment: to make offenders suffer for a bad behavior. You did wrong, you must pay.
2) Deterrence: to discourage others from doing it. We want them to think twice about emulating you.
3) Rehabilitation: correcting their conduct so they won't repeat bad behaviors. You can have a life someday.
4) Segregation: removing them from society so they can't do it again. Don't care about fixing you, don't care about punishing you, you just need to be kept apart.
We tend to differ on what the goal(s) should be, and I'd say that sensible people realize that different goals might need to apply to different offenders. What is clear is that in our prison system, on balance, it seems to be mostly punishment and segregation, with rehabilitation a lower priority. I think deterrence is a theoretical goal, but doesn't seem too effective. But it would help if we had the ability to decide on the goal of an individual's confinement, and focus efforts on it.
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