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Old 11-16-2015, 12:46 PM
 
Location: Shawnee-on-Delaware, PA
3,673 posts, read 3,251,579 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ummagumma View Post
Every country that outlawed abortion has seen the illegal abortion rates skyrocket. And this means killed fetuses + dead / disabled mothers unless the woman is rich enough to travel to where the abortion is legal.
What countries have outlawed abortion recently?

I'm not advocating that we outlaw abortion in the U.S.
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Old 11-16-2015, 01:22 PM
 
Location: Arizona
1,599 posts, read 1,269,048 times
Reputation: 4860
Quote:
Originally Posted by chadgates View Post
That is how I feel.

LOL at the people claiming that recognizing a medical fact (ie. a fetus is a baby) is somehow a "religious belief".

Look at an ultrasound of a 3 month old fetus. You have to lie to yourself to claim that isn't a baby.

Back when the SCOTUS redefined life we didn't have ultrasounds, so it was easier to pretend you weren't legalizing murder.

No longer is that the case.
A 3 month fetus (which is NOT a baby) is nowhere near viable; it has no conscious or awareness. It's not murder because a fetus is not alive and it's not a person. That is what the law says, that is what science says, that is what the Bible says.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jwkilgore View Post
This is me, and from my limited research matches the opinion of the majority of people. Even some people who claim to be "100% pro life" are actually in favor of early term abortions and/or abortions in the case of rape or incest.

However, there comes a point when the fetus is capable of survival outside the womb. At that point, the only thing differentiating between a fetus from a baby human is a few inches. It's purely a matter of location.

It is illegal to kill a human baby that has taken a breath; therefore it should be illegal to kill a fetus that is capable of breathing if not for the fact that is still inside the mother.

So:
Early-term: I personally consider this to be immoral, except for cases of danger to the mother (ectopic, etc.) and rape/incest. But it should be fully legal. It's a medical decision between the woman, her doctor, and her conscience.
Post viability: Illegal. If the mother waits past 22 weeks gestation (Amilla Taylor was born and survived at 21 weeks 6 days), it's too late for any "pro choice" arguments; the choice has been made. Same for "health of the mother"... if the mother is in danger of dying, do a C-section and deliver pre-term. Rape/incest? Genetic defect? You waited too late. You can't kill a 1-day-old product of rape that is the wrong color, or a 3-yr-old child with Down's, so you can't kill a fetus past the point of viability.
54% of abortions are done by 6 weeks, 92% by 12 weeks. The number done from 20-21 weeks is less than 1%, they really don't happen after that. By then MOST people know if their baby will be born with a life threatening defect and have made the decision to continue or abort. Women who don't want to continue their pregnancies from the get-go want an abortion ASAP. The only reason they wait until 12 weeks or slightly after is due to funds and/or access to abortion clinics. So if you don't want women having mid term abortions, they need better access to more affordable services.

No one wants anyone to have an abortion once the baby reaches viability, which is 24 weeks, if the pregnancy becomes life threatening, the baby is delivered usually via emergency c-section and doctors try to save it. Having a baby this early is no walk in the park. They only have 39% chance survival rate and 25% of them will have a life long disability. They require EXTREME medical intervention for months to keep them alive. It's only because of our advancements in medicine that babies born that early even have a chance. I am definitely not in favor of abortions past viability and I would definitely want them to be avoided at all costs, but I think it is wrong to make them illegal. In some instances it may take several u/s scans to properly diagnose a fatal birth defect. If the cut off is 20 weeks and you don't find out until 22 or 23, well then you are forced to carry and give birth to a baby you know will die. Some people want to do that and that is their right. Many don't and that should be their right as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by arleigh View Post
People have become more disrespectful of life when abortion is free.
Disrespectful of one another .
self centered and abusive . IMO
Actually quite the opposite. In countries where abortions are illegal or highly regulated, women face much more domestic violence, and are much more likely to be raped, molested or murdered than in countries where abortion is completly legal and easily accessible. See El Salvador and The Philippines. This is the biggest reason why I support easy access to legal abortions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jtab4994 View Post
Well, good. As President Bill Clinton said famously, "I want abortion to be safe, legal, and rare."

There are over 700,000 abortions in the U.S. every year.

I oppose my tax money going to fund abortion clinics. I know that through the magic of accounting my tax money funds "other services at the clinic" but not "abortions".

I think all the rich people who support abortion should fund Planned Parenthood.
No money tax payer money goes to pay for abortions. That is part of the R v W ruling.
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Old 11-16-2015, 01:39 PM
 
Location: Kansas
19,189 posts, read 14,057,966 times
Reputation: 18141
Quote:
Originally Posted by kell490 View Post
In the last couple of years there have been state laws passed which have put more burden on doctors who preform abortion, and in some states the requirements are so high that clinics have closed down. Some states make the woman see an ultrasound of the fetus. Do you support Abortion being legal or not and why.
I believe abortion is immoral and inhumane. I think the woman should see an ultrasound of her baby before going through an abortion. She best see it now before she learns more and more facts that tell her that it was a baby and that abortion stops a beating heart. Abortion should be unnecessary. Everyone knows what can happen when you have sex. Also, birth control can be gotten from retail stores, the same used by my parents and grandparents which worked for them and this was before even the birth control pill.

Again, most pregnancies are not a result of rape but many will be said to be from rape IF that is allowed. Of course, those people without a conscience will have an abortion and say it was rape. And, less than 1% of the abortions are for minor children. Life of mother is extremely rare and many mothers chance it to save their babies. What about a baby with Down syndrome or other genetic abnormality? Parents that don't want to parent such a child have a choice to give birth and adopt the child to a family that is accepting of the condition of the child. This agency has a listing of families with completed home studies ready to adopt infants/children with Down syndrome: National Down Syndrome Adoption Network

Why don't we try replacing abortion with personal responsibility and maybe the respect for life would minimize some of the other indifference to ending the lives of others?

Always remember and never forget that just because something is legal, that doesn't make it morally right.
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Old 11-16-2015, 01:59 PM
 
Location: Michigan
194 posts, read 163,223 times
Reputation: 212
It should be illegal. These feminists say that it's their body, but it's not just their body because a fetus is a human too and it's no different than killing a baby after it's already been born. Rape and incest are tragedies, but when tragedies occur in a group of people, who is supposed to be put first? The child, and the child is the fetus in cases of rape and incest.
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Old 11-16-2015, 02:00 PM
 
Location: Arizona
1,599 posts, read 1,269,048 times
Reputation: 4860
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnywhereElse View Post
I believe abortion is immoral and inhumane. I think the woman should see an ultrasound of her baby before going through an abortion. She best see it now before she learns more and more facts that tell her that it was a baby and that abortion stops a beating heart. Abortion should be unnecessary. Everyone knows what can happen when you have sex. Also, birth control can be gotten from retail stores, the same used by my parents and grandparents which worked for them and this was before even the birth control pill.

Again, most pregnancies are not a result of rape but many will be said to be from rape IF that is allowed. Of course, those people without a conscience will have an abortion and say it was rape. And, less than 1% of the abortions are for minor children. Life of mother is extremely rare and many mothers chance it to save their babies. What about a baby with Down syndrome or other genetic abnormality? Parents that don't want to parent such a child have a choice to give birth and adopt the child to a family that is accepting of the condition of the child. This agency has a listing of families with completed home studies ready to adopt infants/children with Down syndrome: National Down Syndrome Adoption Network

Why don't we try replacing abortion with personal responsibility and maybe the respect for life would minimize some of the other indifference to ending the lives of others?

Always remember and never forget that just because something is legal, that doesn't make it morally right.
Morals are subjective. Some religions believe it is immoral to eat cows or pigs. Should I have to follow those morals because that is what someone else believes? That is why laws need to be based on facts and logic, not personal beliefs. Facts show a fetus is not a baby. Facts show that even when illegal if a woman wants an abortion, she will get one. Facts show that abortions are safe. Facts show that 90% of women do not regret having an abortion. Facts show that it is inhumane and torturous to force a woman to endure an unwanted pregnancy. Facts show women face more abuse when the option is unavailable.

If you don't want to have an abortion, I respect your right to that CHOICE, but you can not force your personal views of morals onto me and take my decision away. China practices forced abortions. How would you feel if the shoe was on the other foot and you were forced, by law to abort?
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Old 11-16-2015, 02:17 PM
 
Location: Shawnee-on-Delaware, PA
3,673 posts, read 3,251,579 times
Reputation: 6508
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pennies4Penny View Post
No money tax payer money goes to pay for abortions. That is part of the R v W ruling.
Haha! Good one!

Please note that I used the following precise wording:
I oppose my tax money going to fund abortion clinics. I know that through the magic of accounting my tax money funds "other services at the clinic" but not "abortions".
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Old 11-16-2015, 02:21 PM
 
Location: Shawnee-on-Delaware, PA
3,673 posts, read 3,251,579 times
Reputation: 6508
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pennies4Penny View Post
Facts show a fetus is not a baby.
That sounds cold and heartless.

I'll quote left-wing MSNBC's Chris Matthews: When have you ever heard a pregnant woman say "I felt the fetus kick?"

Or do pregnant women not deal in facts?
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Old 11-16-2015, 02:51 PM
 
Location: Venus
4,251 posts, read 2,798,019 times
Reputation: 6788
Abortions have been around since the beginning of time. Whether it is legal or not, abortions WILL be preformed. Prior to Roe v. Wade, women would go to butchers in back alleys to get one done. If I had a daughter who wanted to have one, I would rather her go to a qualified doctor who knows what he/she is doing than some idiot trying to make a buck because she can't get an abortion any place else.

I know many people say that a fetus is a human life. At the time when abortions are preformed, a fetus is basically a parasite. It can not live without the mother-and therefore, not really a human being at that point. I know many people will argue with me on that-and that is your right to believe it or not.

I also love how many people (not all) who oppose abortions also oppose big government (read the Republican Party). They want to keep government small enough so it fits in a woman's uterus. I also love these representatives who will deny access to abortions for other women but wanted their mistresses to have one (Rep. Scott DesJarlais a Republican from Tennessee).

Another thing about many (again not all) pro-lifers, is once a baby is born, they could care less about it. A mother has to struggle to provide health care, food, shelter, etc. They only seem to care about children when they are in the womb and that is it.

This is about a woman's choice. I don't want anyone in Washington tell me what I can do or can't do with my own body. The decision should be between the woman, her family, & her doctor-no one else. No one else has the right to dictate what a woman can & can't do.


If you don't like abortion, then DON'T HAVE ONE!!!!



Cat
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Old 11-16-2015, 03:08 PM
 
Location: Arizona
1,599 posts, read 1,269,048 times
Reputation: 4860
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtab4994 View Post
Haha! Good one!

Please note that I used the following precise wording:
I oppose my tax money going to fund abortion clinics. I know that through the magic of accounting my tax money funds "other services at the clinic" but not "abortions".
Yes, I understood your wording/quotes, but the facts are taxes do not pay for abortions whether you choose to believe it or not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jtab4994 View Post
That sounds cold and heartless.

I'll quote left-wing MSNBC's Chris Matthews: When have you ever heard a pregnant woman say "I felt the fetus kick?"

Or do pregnant women not deal in facts?
You can think it's cold and heartless all you want, but it's a fact. Just because you call something by a certain descriptor doesn't magically change that thing into what you want it to be. Go to the zoo and listen to every idiot that calls a tortoise a turtle or a chimpanzee a monkey. You can call a tortoise a turtle all day long, but the fact is it's a tortoise, which is completely different than a turtle.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CatwomanofV View Post
Abortions have been around since the beginning of time. Whether it is legal or not, abortions WILL be preformed. Prior to Roe v. Wade, women would go to butchers in back alleys to get one done. If I had a daughter who wanted to have one, I would rather her go to a qualified doctor who knows what he/she is doing than some idiot trying to make a buck because she can't get an abortion any place else.

I know many people say that a fetus is a human life. At the time when abortions are preformed, a fetus is basically a parasite. It can not live without the mother-and therefore, not really a human being at that point. I know many people will argue with me on that-and that is your right to believe it or not.

I also love how many people (not all) who oppose abortions also oppose big government (read the Republican Party). They want to keep government small enough so it fits in a woman's uterus. I also love these representatives who will deny access to abortions for other women but wanted their mistresses to have one (Rep. Scott DesJarlais a Republican from Tennessee).

Another thing about many (again not all) pro-lifers, is once a baby is born, they could care less about it. A mother has to struggle to provide health care, food, shelter, etc. They only seem to care about children when they are in the womb and that is it.

This is about a woman's choice. I don't want anyone in Washington tell me what I can do or can't do with my own body. The decision should be between the woman, her family, & her doctor-no one else. No one else has the right to dictate what a woman can & can't do.


If you don't like abortion, then DON'T HAVE ONE!!!!



Cat
That's because politically it's not about fetuses or babies at all. It's about control and keeping women poor. Fact is that women who have babies unexpectedly, especially if young and single, are less likely to go to school and advance their careers, keeping them poor. With social mobility at a stalemate, the baby is doomed to repeat the cycle keeping poor people poor thus widening the gap between the rich and the poor, eliminating the middle class and creating basically a system of modern day slavery for the uber rich (there are many other factors to this, but this is a big part of it). Somehow these master manipulaters have convinced the followed of JESUS, that these people are lazy takers who do not deserve any sort of help. Mind boggling!
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Old 11-16-2015, 04:01 PM
 
168 posts, read 100,186 times
Reputation: 524
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThatUsernameIsTaken View Post
It should be illegal. These feminists say that it's their body, but it's not just their body because a fetus is a human too and it's no different than killing a baby after it's already been born. Rape and incest are tragedies, but when tragedies occur in a group of people, who is supposed to be put first? The child, and the child is the fetus in cases of rape and incest.

Who decides that the fetus - not child, FETUS - is "supposed to be put first"? Some guy on a chat board? Why? What makes a nonsentient being automatically more important than an actual human? Or is this just another misogynist attitude masquerading as Worship of The Children?
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