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Old 03-11-2016, 08:49 AM
 
Location: Living on the Coast in Oxnard CA
16,289 posts, read 32,239,939 times
Reputation: 21890

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Quote:
Originally Posted by dizzybint View Post
No it certainly is anything but an ideal world and yes a man and woman should take responsibility for their actions but isnt it a shame that only a woman has to have the trauma pain, sometimes humiliation and shame of being pregnant for nine months and not the man..... so its never a fair deal on the woman in these cases.................did I see you type... rape is an activity on the decline..... not from where Im standing.... where did you get these figures please.
Let me guess, you have bought into the idea offered on many College campuses that we have a culture of rape. The facts do not support that at all. It is interesting that on college campuses facts are in decline while the politically correct ideals that these institutions of higher learning keep pushing out take a life of their own and become considered fact.

Please offer where your information is coming from that you think rape is increasing? Do you have any facts to back up the idea that rape is increasing? I would love to see that because the known facts, real facts, not those offered by the drive by media or the institutions of higher learning, show a decline in rape.


Rape Is Way Down Over the Past Two Decades

BJS: Rate of Sexual Assault Shows Sharp Decline, Lower Among College-Age Women - Hit & Run : Reason.com

The dramatic decline of rapes and sexual assaults – MattBruenig | Politics
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Old 03-11-2016, 09:00 AM
 
Location: Living on the Coast in Oxnard CA
16,289 posts, read 32,239,939 times
Reputation: 21890
Planned Parenthood is an organization created bya people that wanted to get rid of individuals of color, specifically the African American members of the nation. Anyone that supports Planned Parenthood is supporting a genocidal organization that is doing its part to eliminate the African American population. They do not care about the family, they do not care about you as a person, they do not care about making the world a better place, they do not care about making life easier on young women.

For those that say, "it is my body and I can do what I want with it." Yes you can. You have the choice to do what ever you want with your body. The baby inside you can not make that choice. If someone wants to choose what they are to do with their own bodies then why do we the American People have to pay for those choices? Planned Parenthood gets most of its money from the American Tax payer. Those that do not want to have kids should realize that abstinence is an option. They should take personal responsibility for their actions and if they choose to kill a baby then they can do it on their own and without our money.
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Old 03-11-2016, 09:03 AM
 
36,077 posts, read 30,588,867 times
Reputation: 32344
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tritone View Post
Talk of "rape" and "consent" really have nothing to do with the abortion argument. It's part of the cult of female victim-hood that people use because they have no argument.

Sex isn't something that happens to women. 99% of the time, women get pregnant not because they were raped, nor because they gave in to a man's advances("consent"), but because they actively pursue sex with men and get knocked up.

Should they have to give birth to the children they willfully create? Yes.
It most certainly does when people are arguing that abortion is murder but abortion is ok if the conception was a result of rape or the mothers life is in danger. Either it is murder or it is not. This attitude reinforces the underlying truth that so many are against abortion because they feel a desire to punish woman who actively pursue and enjoy sex, so if they conceive they should be punished by having to carry the pregnancy to term.

A woman does not willfully create children UNTIL she gives birth. Abortion circumvents actually creating children.
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Old 03-11-2016, 09:14 AM
 
1,356 posts, read 1,272,322 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tritone View Post

Male. But it shouldn't matter.

The argument is unrelated to female victimization (rape). That's actually a different issue that has nothing to do with abortion in general. The number of pregnancies that result from rape are miniscule, and are not at the crux of the argument.

"Consent" is a loaded term, rape-related terminology, implying that women only have sex when they agree to it or submit to the advances of men.

Sex and pregnancy don't happen to women. In general, women get pregnant as a result of their own actions because they pursue sex with men.

Should they be allowed to kill the children they create? No.

You are male and it does matter.

Abortion is a woman's issue. Your opinion matters little, except in your involvement with the women in YOUR family.

Leave the women issues to the women, they are perfectly capable of handling their own issues.

We want empowered modern women in our society.
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Old 03-11-2016, 11:53 AM
 
Location: Toronto
854 posts, read 583,197 times
Reputation: 672
Quote:
Originally Posted by SOON2BNSURPRISE View Post
Planned Parenthood is an organization created bya people that wanted to get rid of individuals of color, specifically the African American members of the nation. Anyone that supports Planned Parenthood is supporting a genocidal organization that is doing its part to eliminate the African American population. They do not care about the family, they do not care about you as a person, they do not care about making the world a better place, they do not care about making life easier on young women.

For those that say, "it is my body and I can do what I want with it." Yes you can. You have the choice to do what ever you want with your body. The baby inside you can not make that choice. If someone wants to choose what they are to do with their own bodies then why do we the American People have to pay for those choices? Planned Parenthood gets most of its money from the American Tax payer. Those that do not want to have kids should realize that abstinence is an option. They should take personal responsibility for their actions and if they choose to kill a baby then they can do it on their own and without our money.


So who do you think pays for the the born kids that are not wanted? The majority do not get adopted and foster kids are far more likely to end up in prison and on welfare. Who funds prison and who funds welfare? That would be taxpayers. And you saying that women who choose abortion should "do it on their own" shows that you ARE pro-unsafe abortion, and you ARE pro-death. You want these women to die.

When these women die, the fetus goes with them, you know.

And as a black person, I do not give a damn why Planned Parenthood was initially created. The fact of the matter is that it provides life-saving services to women today, such as surgery for endometriosis. And by the way, an abortion can be a life-saving service as well (ectopic pregnancies DO happen and they are life-threatening). I know that you don't care about that, because you are pro-death.

Would it bother you to know that a majority of the 47,000 women who die of unsafe abortions per year are black African women? A lot of American women who get abortions are African-American, as I'm sure you know. So a disproportionate number of the women who are slated to die as a result of not having access to doctor-assisted safe abortions would be African-American as well, especially given that non-minority women seeking abortions would have greater resources to fly to Mexico or Canada for safe abortions.

You can tell that you really didn't think this through very much (read: at all).

Bottom line: Anti-choicers are pro-death. They endorse policies that they consciously know will result in more women dying. They want more women to die.

Last edited by torontocheeka; 03-11-2016 at 12:05 PM..
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Old 03-11-2016, 12:35 PM
 
5,683 posts, read 4,109,531 times
Reputation: 7403
Quote:
Originally Posted by SOON2BNSURPRISE View Post
Planned Parenthood is an organization created bya people that wanted to get rid of individuals of color, specifically the African American members of the nation. Anyone that supports Planned Parenthood is supporting a genocidal organization that is doing its part to eliminate the African American population. They do not care about the family, they do not care about you as a person, they do not care about making the world a better place, they do not care about making life easier on young women.

For those that say, "it is my body and I can do what I want with it." Yes you can. You have the choice to do what ever you want with your body. The baby inside you can not make that choice. If someone wants to choose what they are to do with their own bodies then why do we the American People have to pay for those choices? Planned Parenthood gets most of its money from the American Tax payer. Those that do not want to have kids should realize that abstinence is an option. They should take personal responsibility for their actions and if they choose to kill a baby then they can do it on their own and without our money.
The personal beliefs of the founders of an organization do not determine the current mission of an organization. The United States was founded by people who believed blacks were less than human. Does that mean that anyone who supports the US is supporting slavery?

I personally support my tax dollars being used to prevent unwanted children from existing. At the societal level unwanted children would be a huge problem. That's part of the nature of taxation -- collective spending will almost always involve spending with which certain individuals disagree. I didn't support the Iraq war, yet many of my tax dollars were spent on it. That's the nature of a democracy.
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Old 03-11-2016, 12:38 PM
 
5,683 posts, read 4,109,531 times
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I will say that I think women's rights arguments are secondary to the question of the ethics of abortion itself. If the contingent biological facts were different, it would be entirely possible that women should have to give birth to a baby whether they want to or not. Personal autonomy is an ethical consideration, but it is a consideration that can be defeated by greater ethical interests.
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Old 03-11-2016, 01:58 PM
 
1,880 posts, read 2,300,843 times
Reputation: 1480
If one wants to reduce abortion, the best way to do so is better access to contraception, education and generally improve quality of life for everyone. Making abortion illegal will not reduce abortion but increase it. Although I've never had an abortion, I have heard from others that aftercare after a legal abortion includes education and improved access to contraception. With illegal abortions, one tends to have the procedure without any sort of aftercare and thus repeat visits are more likely to happen.

These are the rates per country and regions as provided via the Guttmacher Institute.

https://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/journals/25s3099.html

Btw I think there seems to be some naive belief by some that before Roe vs Wade, abortion didn't exist.

I don't know about in the US but the following is from online New Zealand book about NZ during the Second World War (the whole chapter makes rather interesting and eye-opening reading, especially for this Kiwi):


CHAPTER 20 — Camp Followers | NZETC
Quote:
There were abortions, the number unknown and speculation thereon unlimited. The 1936 inquiry had estimated that 4000 a year were criminally induced. Mr Justice Blair in July 1941 said: ‘The evidence we get in the courts makes it abundantly plain that … abortion is unfortunately very, very common.’ The murder of an unborn child was considered, he said, even by educated people, not to carry the stigma or horror engendered by murder of a child after birth. ‘People look on the procuring of abortion as something that can be successfully done, and people can go to the lengths of boasting about it.’ With regret he sentenced to two months in prison a 24-year-old labourer with a blameless record—‘not a professional abortionist’—who had paid a chemist 26 shillings ‘for some stuff that was no doubt worthless’.139
At the time, NZ had a population of about 1.5 million. Adjusting for population (i.e. NZ at the time had 1/212th of today's US population), that would be equivalent to about 800,000 abortions in the US. One can see how high the rate was even then when it came to illegal abortions. And it is quite probably that the above rate was actually underreported.
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Old 03-11-2016, 03:16 PM
 
1,356 posts, read 1,272,322 times
Reputation: 876
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wittgenstein's Ghost View Post
I will say that I think women's rights arguments are secondary to the question of the ethics of abortion itself. If the contingent biological facts were different, it would be entirely possible that women should have to give birth to a baby whether they want to or not. Personal autonomy is an ethical consideration, but it is a consideration that can be defeated by greater ethical interests.
Whose greater ethical interests? A males?

Your natural bias is reflected in your talking points. The fact is that no one will take care (Or care for that matter) of my family like my family. The family is at the core of ethics. You want to tell someone elses family what is best for their family? That is alot of responsibility. Suggest yes, make suggestions. Legislate morality and ethics? NO.
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Old 03-11-2016, 03:32 PM
 
3,840 posts, read 2,196,838 times
Reputation: 3125
Quote:
Originally Posted by Werone View Post
We want empowered modern women in our society.
It's disturbing that anyone thinks having the right to kill unborn children, whenever they want for whatever reason they want, is "empowering".

That's "women's rights" to you?
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