The definitive alcohol vs marijuana vs cigarette debate (cocaine, cost, election)
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but what about all the pesticides and herbicide that they spray on the plants, its not like there any government control on growing, they going more maximum yield, you think they care about health beneifits
There is PLENTY of government control in the places where it is legal. In Colorado, for example, every single plant gets a RFID tag, and it is tracked all the way from seedling to harvest to final use (flowers, oil, medical, retail, etc). Growers and retailers has to upload their data to the government agency daily. In 2014 alone, the government tracking system in Colorado logged 37 million "events".
There are no pesticides used on legally grown mj. Quality is assured.
This is just another area where prohibition doesn't protect anyone. Reality is that it does just the opposite, in fact.
My take on it. If there are health benefits, you'll get them from pot will be gained by infrequent, occasional use, like once every 2 weeks or so. The health drawbacks will manifest with frequent heavy use. So in small amounts in moderation is the optimal use if you are going to use. This guideline holds for most drugs though actually, like wine and even opiates.
Pot is addictive. Heavy users have 0 appetite and can't sleep if they quit cold turkey. The biggest drawback that will come about from it is decreased memory and analytic ability in frequent users. The biggest benefit is it will take a lot of alcohol's place as the drug of choice, as alcohol has to be one of the most toxic ways on the body to get a high that people can get better from other drugs.
About Schedule 1, if your wondering why pot is on there, explain why psychedelics are on there as well. Except for the really heavy opiates, Schedule 1 drugs are significantly safer than Schedule 2 or 3. Explain that one. Lol one of the Schedule 1 drugs is called Thebacon.
There is PLENTY of government control in the places where it is legal. In Colorado, for example, every single plant gets a RFID tag, and it is tracked all the way from seedling to harvest to final use (flowers, oil, medical, retail, etc). Growers and retailers has to upload their data to the government agency daily. In 2014 alone, the government tracking system in Colorado logged 37 million "events".
There are no pesticides used on legally grown mj. Quality is assured.
This is just another area where prohibition doesn't protect anyone. Reality is that it does just the opposite, in fact.
And this serves as evidence why we need legalization, not decriminalization. If a drug is not criminal, then it should be legal. Decriminalization is just a grey area that's going to lead to a lot of unintended consequences.
Pot is addictive. Heavy users have 0 appetite and can't sleep if they quit cold turkey. The biggest drawback that will come about from it is decreased memory and analytic ability in frequent users. The biggest benefit is it will take a lot of alcohol's place as the drug of choice, as alcohol has to be one of the most toxic ways on the body to get a high that people can get better from other drugs.
I'd post links, but I don't think we are allowed to of other forums. Just go to a drugs related forum and look under the marijuana section and read.
I have no personal evidence though, because I've never been anywhere close to being addicted on it. I've had a couple people tell me though they smoke every night or they can't get to sleep.
Links are OK here, as long as you explain them. In this case, the FBI literally had to relax their testing requirements for cannabis when they wanted to hire the best of the best computer geeks in order to fight cybercrime. What they found was that none of the cream of the crop could pass the mj test!
But FBI Director James B. Comey said Monday that if the FBI hopes to continue to keep pace with cyber criminals, the organization may have to loosen up its no-tolerance policy for hiring those who like to smoke marijuana.
These cream of the crop computer geeks have no problems with their analytic ability or their memory.
That is one of the problems with looking up marijuana facts on the Internet -- most of them are bunk. 99.9% of all "studies" are biased towards whoever is funding them, with the results accordingly skewed.
I can confirm the FBI director's findings with my own real world first-hand experience. Back in the late 70's and the 1980's I was heavily involved in the growing microcomputer field. All of the really talented and creative people I worked with used mj daily, myself included. Most went on to very successful careers in Silicon Valley. Many others who come from that background can confirm this, and I can even find posts from others here in CD to quote if you like.
This is just one more reason why I feel people should put a lot more emphasis on real world accounts from first-hand experience instead of the "studies" found on the Internet.
I'd post links, but I don't think we are allowed to of other forums. Just go to a drugs related forum and look under the marijuana section and read.
I have no personal evidence though, because I've never been anywhere close to being addicted on it. I've had a couple people tell me though they smoke every night or they can't get to sleep.
The memory and analytic ability is a duh.
I'm a regular user, and stop for a couple months periodically when I know I'm going to be applying for a new job. It makes it a little harder to sleep in the first week or so, because I'm not as relaxed probably, but I am menopause age so I had trouble sleeping through the night anyway. Loss of appetite has never been a problem for me, but if stopping smoking reduced my appetite I would stop just to try to lose weight for the holidays, lol.
The withdrawal symptoms are mainly psychological, a wistfulness like "I wish could smoke right now", but they are not anywhere near as bad as they were when I quit cigarettes (and now I'm addicted to Nicorette, lol). I couldn't sleep at all then.
My withdrawal symptoms were also worse when I tried to take a break from coffee.
Links are OK here, as long as you explain them. In this case, the FBI literally had to relax their testing requirements for cannabis when they wanted to hire the best of the best computer geeks in order to fight cybercrime. What they found was that none of the cream of the crop could pass the mj test!
These cream of the crop computer geeks have no problems with their analytic ability or their memory.
That is one of the problems with looking up marijuana facts on the Internet -- most of them are bunk. 99.9% of all "studies" are biased towards whoever is funding them, with the results accordingly skewed.
I can confirm the FBI director's findings with my own real world first-hand experience. Back in the late 70's and the 1980's I was heavily involved in the growing microcomputer field. All of the really talented and creative people I worked with used mj daily, myself included. Most went on to very successful careers in Silicon Valley. Many others who come from that background can confirm this, and I can even find posts from others here in CD to quote if you like.
This is just one more reason why I feel people should put a lot more emphasis on real world accounts from first-hand experience instead of the "studies" found on the Internet.
My first hand experience leads me to the conclusion that there is a profound effect on memory and analytic ability because that is by far the most dominant negative effect from MJ. Many of my friends have said the same thing.
There's a few variables here though. But are you smoking all day every day or just one small hit a day? Also, a person can still be pretty dang good at something even with slightly diminished performance. I know I use mj occasionally, so if they had a very strict policy on it, I would be kicked too (although I'd give it up for a job).
Also, from long term studies, they have noticed that frequent users have diminished hippocampuses. The hippocampus is the area of the brain that takes observations and bundles them together into a memory with specific tags like date and time and order... In sleep, memories from the hippocampus travel to the neocortex, allowing for broader associations and connections, instead of categorizing memories
Enter Phil P's hypothesis. Marijuana does something to the hippocampus and inputs and observations instead of being in standard packages constructed by the hippocampus go directly to the neocortex, so marijuana will allow for new insights and connections, but you can't remember what just happened or specific details about when an event happened while high... So it's a double edged sword. But if your always high, you will have a lot of problems trying to remember specifics or compare distinctions because of the impairment. Although you will have lots of insights.
Per CDC - 480,000 deaths annually from cigarettes, leading cause for preventable death
Per NIH - 88,000 alcohol related deaths in 2013
Per research, the worst I could find was that marijuana "could cause" up to 30,000 deaths per year, citing same effects as cigarettes.
Billions of government dollars are spent fighting the war on marijuana, and revenue lost not legalizing also in the billions.
With the tax dollars received from cigarette sales, very little is used towards programs to prevent tobacco use.
The government spends upwards of a million purchasing alcohol. The government does spend billions on substance abuse programs annually which includes alcohol and the "harder" drugs.
I'm egging on the marijuana detractors to spin their story to make marijuana as bad as alcohol or cigarettes for any reason. In my mind, there is no debate. Marijuana is the only one of the three that has medicinal qualities, and the only one grown naturally (herb). And now that states are starting to legalize marijuana, for the sake of this debate legality need not be discussed.
I'm actually in favor of legalization\decriminalization but I will take up your challenge.
1. Alcohol has health benefits in moderation.
2. Marijuana isn't as prevalently used. Your citations above would be like pointing to the "safety" of keeping cobras as pets as opposed to dogs by citing the one death a year from cobras.
3. Marijuana has other affects (like on developing young brains) that are hard to turn into "deaths" but can have detrimental mental effects.
In short, a little pot use for people that are a bit older isn't bad at all imo.
I think one of the big things keeping MJ illegal is stigma. It has, classically, been associated with a certain class of people, on the lower scale of society. While alcohol and tobacco are used by all segments, all the way to the aristocrats. MJ is seen as something that "trailer trash" and such indulge in, not "normal" people, who go to PTA meetings and attend fundraising events do. The latter people go home to whiskey otr, not a doobie.
So much of it is just image, painted in times long past. Its not just scroungy hippies and tenement dwellers who indulge in weed anymore. Hasn't been for a long time.
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