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Old 01-23-2016, 09:04 AM
 
Location: Cape Cod
24,215 posts, read 16,904,664 times
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I just saw this on yahoo news and thought it interesting.

Anti-immigrant vigilante patrols cause concern in Finland


There is a real problem in Europe with the swarms of refugees coming from the middle east. Yes most are seeking a better life but some come looking for trouble. It is a clash of culture and religion that is going on.

Now this group in Finland does not carry guns but they do carry pepper spray. In America they probably would be armed which might incite a bigger backlash. In reading the article it is clear that the "soldiers of Odin" see a real problem while others consider their patrols ridiculous and even dress as clowns to taunt them.

I think citizen patrols like this are a good idea and we have seen them from time to time in America.

Do you see the group in Finland as being discriminatory or do you think it is a good idea to patrol the way they do?
Should we have similar groups patrolling the troubled streets in America?
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Old 01-23-2016, 03:12 PM
 
Location: Secure, Undisclosed
1,984 posts, read 1,689,287 times
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WHOA, there big fella! This sounds like the classic apples and oranges comparison to me...

Finland has open borders and Europe has a zillion refugees invading it. They don't have a way to control immigration. Finland has a distinct culture to it, and the more xenophobic among them want to keep it that way.

The US has two oceans, Canada and Mexico on our borders. Technically, they are not open borders. Mexico, Canada and the two oceans are not teeming with Middle Eastern, African and South Asian refugees.

I'm all in favor of vigilantes where they are needed. In Nigeria, vigilantes (volunteer village security forces) have recently saved hundreds of people from suicide bombers. (The last one was yesterday.)

HOWEVER...the last thing we need on the 'troubled streets in America' is armed vigilantes. Dial up the C-D current events board and read how our citizens think about every mistake the real police make. And they get trained.

Thanks for asking the question, but I'm not in favor of it here.
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Old 01-26-2016, 09:05 AM
 
Location: NW Nevada
18,126 posts, read 15,515,021 times
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Well, here in the US, such citizen patrols have been around a long time. The most famous, I suppose, being the Guardian Angels. If a community has a serious issue, like what's going on in Europe with these "refugees", here in the US, , I'm A OK with with the militia working with LE to protect themselves and ensure the safety of their loved ones. Such is one of the reasons we have the Militia and the 2A.

As to training, that was mentioned, there are a LOT of citizens, who would be serving in a situation such as we are discussing, that are far more trained and capable than the majority of police. These would be the people in charge if the militia galvanized, and despite views to the contrary, six pack commandos wouldn't be tolerated. Such types would be weeded out fast. At least I can say that with confidence, in my community.

Nope, no problem with citizen patrols. Being able to form up thus is a right, guaranteed us by the Constitution. Its not a right we should even consider giving up.
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Old 01-28-2016, 11:00 AM
 
Location: Chattanooga, TN
3,045 posts, read 5,199,663 times
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If they are "observation patrols", similar to a neighborhood watch, then we have those already. Keep your eyes open and report anything suspicious. If handled correctly the local police appreciate the extra eyes. No firearms, just non-lethals for self defense.

We also already have armed patrols, although they are usually far less welcomed by the police. Again, if all they do is watch and let immigrants know they are watching, then no harm no foul. But if they decide to attack an immigrant party they that is nothing but trouble.
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Old 01-29-2016, 10:00 AM
 
Location: Down the rabbit hole
863 posts, read 1,189,198 times
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There is a great documentary on Netflix called "Cartel Land" . It's about 2 vigilante groups, one Mexican, one American and their struggle to protect their communities from drug cartels. Depending on your perspective, the Mexican group could be seen as being wildly successful..........until the corrupt government stepped in.

After watching, I'm still not sure vigilante groups are the answer but in their own words ........If we don't do it who will?

Violent, thought provoking and highly recommended. http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/03/mo...drug-wars.html
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Old 02-01-2016, 02:06 PM
 
Location: Cape Cod
24,215 posts, read 16,904,664 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NVplumber View Post
Well, here in the US, such citizen patrols have been around a long time. The most famous, I suppose, being the Guardian Angels. If a community has a serious issue, like what's going on in Europe with these "refugees", here in the US, , I'm A OK with with the militia working with LE to protect themselves and ensure the safety of their loved ones. Such is one of the reasons we have the Militia and the 2A.

As to training, that was mentioned, there are a LOT of citizens, who would be serving in a situation such as we are discussing, that are far more trained and capable than the majority of police. These would be the people in charge if the militia galvanized, and despite views to the contrary, six pack commandos wouldn't be tolerated. Such types would be weeded out fast. At least I can say that with confidence, in my community.

Nope, no problem with citizen patrols. Being able to form up thus is a right, guaranteed us by the Constitution. Its not a right we should even consider giving up.


Good points made here.
I really like that you brought up the Constitution. If the Gov. Can't or Won't protect the people than the people have ot do it themselves and form watch groups and if needed militias. Hillary once said "it takes a village" . She was referring to raising kids but that motto should also go towards securing a safe village.

I think citizen groups are a good idea as long as they work with the police and don't act like they are the police.
Case in point the neighborhood watch guy George Zimmerman. He should not have had a gun. Of course Treyvon should not have jumped him but a guy like George is an accident waiting to happen as we have seen with his frequent run ins since that fateful night.

We all need to be more vigilant everyday and if someone looks odd or something feels out of place let someone know.
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Old 02-01-2016, 08:04 PM
 
7,654 posts, read 5,065,257 times
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The problem is with large influx of immigrants its exhausting and inefficient to have to employ all the rights a regular citizen would have. What is happening in Finland and Germany is an invasion and it should be dealt with accordingly. This is not your neighbor joe stealing a pack of cigerettes.


These people need to be armed with full assult weapons and shoot first ask questions later mentality, if I were them I would not care what reasons these people were there, they need to know they are not welcome and that their lives are in danger.


We cant do that here because we have a large police state that protects immigrants, but lets not pretend they are all welcome.


Quote:
Originally Posted by NVplumber View Post
Well, here in the US, such citizen patrols have been around a long time. The most famous, I suppose, being the Guardian Angels. If a community has a serious issue, like what's going on in Europe with these "refugees", here in the US, , I'm A OK with with the militia working with LE to protect themselves and ensure the safety of their loved ones. Such is one of the reasons we have the Militia and the 2A.

As to training, that was mentioned, there are a LOT of citizens, who would be serving in a situation such as we are discussing, that are far more trained and capable than the majority of police. These would be the people in charge if the militia galvanized, and despite views to the contrary, six pack commandos wouldn't be tolerated. Such types would be weeded out fast. At least I can say that with confidence, in my community.

Nope, no problem with citizen patrols. Being able to form up thus is a right, guaranteed us by the Constitution. Its not a right we should even consider giving up.
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Old 02-01-2016, 08:07 PM
 
7,654 posts, read 5,065,257 times
Reputation: 5036
If I can not act with total autonomy then I wont do it, I will protect myself and my family and that's it. The Zimmerman trial proved that our govt is against us and that you will be prosecuted if it is not direct self defense. Zimmerman shot a worthless human being and almost went to jail for a long time for it.


The fed govt is our enemy but they are too powerful to do anything about. The finish govt along with the Russians better take a brutal stance otherwise their cultures will be lost. They better get these guys some heavy weapons with orders to shoot and ask questions later if ever.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Cape Cod Todd View Post
Good points made here.
I really like that you brought up the Constitution. If the Gov. Can't or Won't protect the people than the people have ot do it themselves and form watch groups and if needed militias. Hillary once said "it takes a village" . She was referring to raising kids but that motto should also go towards securing a safe village.

I think citizen groups are a good idea as long as they work with the police and don't act like they are the police.
Case in point the neighborhood watch guy George Zimmerman. He should not have had a gun. Of course Treyvon should not have jumped him but a guy like George is an accident waiting to happen as we have seen with his frequent run ins since that fateful night.

We all need to be more vigilant everyday and if someone looks odd or something feels out of place let someone know.
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Old 02-02-2016, 09:52 AM
 
5,250 posts, read 4,640,657 times
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It's more than a tad bit disturbing to think that the specter of George Zimmerman appeared in some posters minds when considering the validity of armed militia's as an adjunct police force. We've recently been treated to a ringside seat in the Malheur range fiasco in Oregon, I'd venture a wild guess that the average boneheaded militia type would love nothing more than to see the proliferation of these urban cowboys as something to cheer about. Patrols? No thanks. Peacekeepers? not now or ever will these nuts be considered anything more than disturbers of our peace.

We are being exposed to more violence than ever in our so called "entertainment" media, video games, movies, gangsta rap, the adoration of all things military, Pro sports, and a general monster boy mentality among so much of our male youth population. To think that this proliferation of violence, hasn't fueled a view of violence as a kind of social fix-it solution resulting in a newly revived notion of armed young men "protecting our village," is to ignore the rise in thinking that guns are indeed the best solution to most of our societal ills.

We already have some difficulty reigning in the existing rogue elements in law enforcement, I couldn't imagine the troubles we'd have with a bunch of roving bands of armed American's each with their own little agenda's being addressed with this new sense of power. WELL REGULATED......It may sound trite to say that this needs to be properly defined until we realize that we already have what can be considered a NOT WELL REGULATED bunch operating in Oregon, and elsewhere, today.

We have way too many here that are fearful of government. it isn't just the notion that government can't protect us, no, it is more along the line of thinking that "we need to take on the government" with a well armed gang of malcontents that have deemed the government to be an "enemy" of the people. This is the thinking that drove the bluster talk at Malheur, the Bundy's, LaVoy Finicum, Jon Ritzheimer, Blaine Cooper, and others are the face of fantasy suffering nit wits everywhere, shouting their undying loyalty to their "cause" only to roll out of their pickups, to the ground, in surrender, while the super patriot LaVoy was busy dying for nothing. And we need more of these people? I think not..
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Old 02-02-2016, 04:49 PM
 
8,275 posts, read 7,888,005 times
Reputation: 12122
There is an inverse relationship between the amount of vigilantism that occurs and the level of confidence and trust people have in their government to govern in a just fashion. In the West, I think an increase in vigilantism is also reflective of the elites not representing the views and values of the average citizen.
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