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I wasn't ignoring it, it wasn't relevant. The phrase I bolded clearly states that you help her, thus placing the responsibility for the task on her plate. If you had not said that and simply stated you shared household chores, I wouldn't have responded at all. The subtle implication is exactly what the discussion is referring to. Even though, they may get "help", many household chores still are the unspoken responsibly of the woman. Whether or not she holds a full time job as well.
I wasn't ignoring it, it wasn't relevant. The phrase I bolded clearly states that you help her, thus placing the responsibility for the task on her plate. If you had not said that and simply stated you shared household chores, I wouldn't have responded at all. The subtle implication is exactly what the discussion is referring to. Even though, they may get "help", many household chores still are the unspoken responsibly of the woman. Whether or not she holds a full time job as well.
Exactly. The change I'd like to see is less acceptance of male/female roles as society has dictated them to be in the past and a more thoughtful, measured decision about how these things will be shared by both men and women. Men, historically, were expected to be sole providers to the detriment of their involvement in family life. This is just as unfair as automatically casting women in the child rearing/household chores role.
I have no issue with how people split up household/childcare duties as long as it's decided willingly by both partners. I do have an issue with the assumption a woman accepts childcare and household maintenance as her sole obligations as soon as a ring is on her finger. Just like I have an issue with a man being cast in the role of sole provider based on society's past dictates.
" They assume the obligations and responsibilities of child rearing and house keeping are the sole marital obligation of the woman."
WOW!! Talk about "assumptions"! You ASSUME that you know how I think? Sorry to be so blunt, but IMO that makes you a fool!
Remember my mention of "house husbands"? I put that in there because I entered into this marriage as a house husband, and since I retired I am once again a house husband! I knew going in that it would be that way, and I was absolutely willing to assume the "normal" husbandly duties as well as the child care, cleaning, cooking, dishwashing, etc.
Even after I found a job, I still did what I could or needed to do. As for the "pay gap", DW has consistently made more per hour than I have, even when I was a licensed A&P mechanic!
As a side note, this marriage has lasted over 30 years.
Yes, what I have posted ONLY applies to me and mine. MOST of my posts do that; more often than not, they relate to MY personal experience only.
Um.. I made no assumptions. You stated "Marriage is voluntary. If one does not like the obligations and responsibilities that it entails, do not get married" in response to the OP. The thread is about the pay gap of women in the work force and how the frequently unequal split of childcare/household chores adds to this inequity. You responded in a way that can only be interpreted as "Well they got married and knew what was expected when they did". Your assumption was that any woman who marries is obligated to provide cleaning and childcare services. You conveniently forgot that perhaps a man that marries is obligating himself to the same.
Your marriage is clearly one of equals where you and your spouse have negotiated what works best for both of you and your family. Sadly, there are men and women who lack the insight/skills to do the same and rely on societal norms for determining marital roles.
Exactly. The change I'd like to see is less acceptance of male/female roles as society has dictated them to be in the past and a more thoughtful, measured decision about how these things will be shared by both men and women. Men, historically, were expected to be sole providers to the detriment of their involvement in family life. This is just as unfair as automatically casting women in the child rearing/household chores role.
I have no issue with how people split up household/childcare duties as long as it's decided willingly by both partners. I do have an issue with the assumption a woman accepts childcare and household maintenance as her sole obligations as soon as a ring is on her finger. Just like I have an issue with a man being cast in the role of sole provider based on society's past dictates.
Quote:
Originally Posted by UNC4Me
Um.. I made no assumptions. You stated "Marriage is voluntary. If one does not like the obligations and responsibilities that it entails, do not get married" in response to the OP. The thread is about the pay gap of women in the work force and how the frequently unequal split of childcare/household chores adds to this inequity. You responded in a way that can only be interpreted as "Well they got married and knew what was expected when they did". Your assumption was that any woman who marries is obligated to provide cleaning and childcare services. You conveniently forgot that perhaps a man that marries is obligating himself to the same.
Your marriage is clearly one of equals where you and your spouse have negotiated what works best for both of you and your family. Sadly, there are men and women who lack the insight/skills to do the same and rely on societal norms for determining marital roles.
Yea you are conveniently forgetting about all the rest of the crap there is to do in the house. This weekend I was up in the attic laying down insulation. Next weekend I am removing all the bushes and overgrown trees in the yard. The prior weekend I installed a closet light as per my wife's request. Sorry, but my wife wants no part of that. That's HER decision. So yes, I HELP my wife clean because she starts while I take care of my responsibilities and then I help her when I'm done since cleaning usually takes longer.
I always thought this was how a marriage is supposed to work? Maybe I'm just out of touch, maybe I am missing something, maybe I am just dense. I do feel sorry for some husbands out there having to deal with crap like this where every single thing they say is twisted and over analyzed... sheesh!
Last edited by ayoitzrimz; 02-29-2016 at 08:13 AM..
Yea you are conveniently forgetting about all the rest of the crap there is to do in the house. This weekend I was up in the attic laying down insulation. Next weekend I am removing all the bushes and overgrown trees in the yard. The prior weekend I installed a closet light as per my wife's request. Sorry, but my wife wants no part of that. That's HER decision. So yes, I HELP my wife clean because she starts while I take care of my responsibilities and then I help her when I'm done since cleaning usually takes longer.
I always thought this was how a marriage is supposed to work? Maybe I'm just out of touch, maybe I am missing something, maybe I am just dense. I do feel sorry for some husbands out there having to deal with crap like this where every single thing they say is twisted and over analyzed... sheesh!
Once again you missed the point. Here it is one more time: Division of work as mutually decided by a couple = good. Division of work as dictated by societal norms to the detriment of one or both parts of a couple = stupid and unfair. And yet, there is still a huge disparity in the hours spent on household/childcare in many marriages. If it's OK with BOTH people involved, great. If not, it's a recipe for an unhappy union. And as the title of the thread says, it equates to lower earnings and opportunities for many women.
In a "traditional" modern family where the male works outside the home for a wage and the female works inside the home cooking, cleaning, raising the kids, and supporting her husband's ability to earn a wage, the female does get paid. In almost every state in the USA, she "owns" exactly half of everything her spouse earns.
Currently, my wife is unemployed and does all the housekeeping. I pay for her housing, utilities (our air conditioner or heater is running 24/7 to keep her pampered dog comfy), food, vehicle (payment, gas, insurance, maintenance), cell phone, cable TV, internet, and medical care. Please tell me how she "doesn't get paid to do housework".
When she was employed it was about 35 hours/week (commute + work) compared to my 60+hrs/week (commute + work). I did considerably more housework back then, but she still did the majority because I was simply away from home twice as much as she was.
If you want to discuss an unfair situations, look at relationships where the male and female both work full-time jobs and the female still does the majority of housework. I believe this is generally because the female simply demands a cleaner house (nest) than the male (his logic: she wants it, she does the work). However, marriage is a partnership full of compromise; if one half the partnership isn't happy unless the house is clean, then both halves need to participate to keep it clean. "If momma ain't happy, ain't no one happy."
A friend of my husbands wife tried to get her husband to share responsibilities in the home to which he ignored. She also tried to get him to do more with the family. Then when he was visiting he complained that she was a b*tch. One day she filed for a divorce of course he was shocked. DH jumped on the bandwagon until I had my say which was...
She tried telling him she was unhappy but he chose to ignore it. He was very happy when she stopped asking. When they don't say anything is when they gave up and when he should have started worrying. It doesn't mean they are happy. When she filed he tried to convince her to stay, after all he was happy right? It was too late, she now ignored him and now they are divorced.
In a "traditional" modern family where the male works outside the home for a wage and the female works inside the home cooking, cleaning, raising the kids, and supporting her husband's ability to earn a wage, the female does get paid. In almost every state in the USA, she "owns" exactly half of everything her spouse earns.
Currently, my wife is unemployed and does all the housekeeping. I pay for her housing, utilities (our air conditioner or heater is running 24/7 to keep her pampered dog comfy), food, vehicle (payment, gas, insurance, maintenance), cell phone, cable TV, internet, and medical care. Please tell me how she "doesn't get paid to do housework".
I disagree that this sort of arrangement means the woman is getting paid. That's like saying your kids are getting paid by sharing the house with you - they get a roof, food, paid for utilities, plus whatever spending money you generously give them.
If you want to discuss an unfair situations, look at relationships where the male and female both work full-time jobs and the female still does the majority of housework. I believe this is generally because the female simply demands a cleaner house (nest) than the male (his logic: she wants it, she does the work). However, marriage is a partnership full of compromise; if one half the partnership isn't happy unless the house is clean, then both halves need to participate to keep it clean. "If momma ain't happy, ain't no one happy."
One day driving to work listening to talk radio a male caller said that his wife never wanted to.
Radio Host: Does she work
Caller: Yes
Radio Host: Part time / Full time?
Caller: Full time,
Radio Host: How many kids do you have?
Caller: 2
Radio Host: When you get home from work what do you do?
Caller, ah maybe take a nap, read the paper,
Radio Host: What does she do
Caller: Gets the kids then fixes dinner,
Radio Host: Who does the dishes?
Caller: My wife,
Radio Host: Who helps with homework and gets the kids ready for bed?
Caller: My wife,
Radio Host: What do you do on your day off?
Caller: I don't know, fish, hunt, whatever,
Radio Host: What's your wife doing?
Caller: Stuff, groceries, washes I guess stuff around the house.
Radio Host: How in the **** do you expect your wife to have the energy?
Caller: Stumbles, he still didn't get it.
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