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There can be no debate about Democratic Socialism. First, what we're talking about is Socialism, there is nothing Democratic about and the two can not coexist. The two are diametrically opposed. Second, we don't live in a Democratic system, we have a Represented Republic form of Government.
At some point, the spin doctors and the media started referring to are system as democratic and so far it as worked to convince the ill informed to feel like they have more control then they do. Only some of the states are a democratic form of government, but not the federal system.
I agree but there's a lot of money being invested to change the laws in this country to have a more Socialistic form of government wouldn't you agree?
What a great world it would be if all this came true!!
How would we fund it?
Divert military funds to humanitarian needs. Make corps and other 1%'r pay their fair share.
Very simple. We would have to cap the population for it to work correctly, so hyper-breeders would have to do their part and not imitate feral cats for a while
How would you protect your country from invasions?
Secondly, how would you, in our "Free" society, force sterilization on your citizens? By force?
Currently we pay taxes and the government spends those taxes on the country in a way they see fit. Is this socialism? If not, then how is Bernie's plan (or that of any other Democratic Socialist, Social Democrat, or whatever) different? If so, then what are the changes being proposed that somehow make these "new" socialist plans any worse?
Personally, my view is that we are already essentially socialist. I'm pro making the taxes work for everybody through universal healthcare, higher education, etc. rather than continuing to have taxes only work for a few.
Currently we pay taxes and the PEOPLE spend those taxes on the country in a way they see fit.
What's "ironic" is that I've accurately described the group you belong to in very general terms, and you've confirmed all the stereotypes in exquisite detail, and still fail to see yourself as part a larger class of self-centered parasites.
Your counterpart, the you that you did NOT become, took care of himself, first. Didn't waste time and taxpayer money at a Liberal Arts college, instead they got a practical, useful degree and they paid for it with the money they earned themself by hard work. Didn't waste time on a grandiose organization like Greenpeace or the Peace Corps, instead he/she took care of their immediate community, quietly and without any glory or fanfare. They picked and chose which part of Rush was good fun, which part was useful political insight and which part to reject, and didn't waste time following the retarded herd, programmed to hate this person or that. Accepted that healthcare and college were both services that were the responsibility of the individual to pay for, and didn't try to foist that responsibility on someone else who DID work for a living, and degrade their quality of life as a result of that increased tax burden. Didn't view themself as a victim, because he/she recognized that no matter how bad their circumstances were, there were others that had worse and they overcame them and did not use their (false) claims of victimization as a means of manipulating others into giving them special resources and considerations. Didn't use or abuse drugs, didn't participate in destroying other people's lives by selling them, didn't leave debts at hospitals thereby driving up the cost of other people's healthcare to someone else, and didn't go to prison for whatever crime(s) you may have committed.
In a parallel universe there's a much better person who started off like you did, but didn't make any of the mistakes and bad decisions you did, and when that person made mistakes they admitted them and didn't expect productive people that did not make those mistakes to pay the price for them. There's a better "you" in that parallel universe, and that person is not part of the parasitic and determined underclass, who's only ambition is to suck as much of other people's resources before they finally, mercifully, die.
Obviously you missed the point. I am successful and I took steps to drag myself out of the gutter. Something you said was impossible.
I had a full scholarship to school (which I wasted by the way).
I take care of my community through volunteering and philanthropy.
I pay for my own healthcare (Self pay without insurance)
I don't look at myself as a victim.. I USED TO
As far as a better "me", I am quite happy with the struggles and hardships I have lived through, they have made me a better person.
When you made your blanket statement that all people who leeched off the system could never change, well, that's pure ignorance.
Currently we pay taxes and the PEOPLE spend those taxes on the country in a way they see fit.
OK, you say "people" and I say "government" which is elected by the people so the question remains: Is this socialism? If not, then how is Bernie's plan (or that of any other Democratic Socialist, Social Democrat, or whatever) different? If so, then what are the changes being proposed that somehow make these "new" socialist plans any worse?
OK, you say "people" and I say "government" which is elected by the people so the question remains: Is this socialism? If not, then how is Bernie's plan (or that of any other Democratic Socialist, Social Democrat, or whatever) different? If so, then what are the changes being proposed that somehow make these "new" socialist plans any worse?
I think it comes down to where and how much we the people decide to allow our governments to control us. I would say currently we have a semi-socialistic government, with a rift in between folks who want our government to control us more, and the other side who wants less government interference. I feel, as stated above, that some social programs would be wonderful for our country, such as a healthcare system similar to Canada's. But other programs, such as the EPA, need a serious overhaul and spending reduction.
So to answer your question, I think that Bernie and other socialists want more government spending on more "free" programs such as Universal Education and my talking points listed in the first post, and that would be a more socialistic government than we currently have.
#6 Universal Income is my biggest issue; there is no logical way to argue that some jobs are more important and should be more compensated than others. A heart surgeon is a much bigger asset than an insurance salesman for example. Universal income would take any drive to accomplish more away. Why the hell would i get educated and go through years of studying to learn how to be a surgeon when i could just make pizzas and be paid the same?
Im sorry, but some jobs and even some people are more important than others, it may sound harsh but it is true.
It's true that insurance salesmen make more than heart surgeons, but that is the market place, but nobody plans to make either one the basic income. Basic income would be pretty close to poverty level, and if they want more they will have to go out and work for it.
What's "ironic" is that I've accurately described the group you belong to in very general terms, and you've confirmed all the stereotypes in exquisite detail, and still fail to see yourself as part a larger class of self-centered parasites.
Your counterpart, the you that you did NOT become, took care of himself, first. Didn't waste time and taxpayer money at a Liberal Arts college, instead they got a practical, useful degree and they paid for it with the money they earned themself by hard work. Didn't waste time on a grandiose organization like Greenpeace or the Peace Corps, instead he/she took care of their immediate community, quietly and without any glory or fanfare. They picked and chose which part of Rush was good fun, which part was useful political insight and which part to reject, and didn't waste time following the retarded herd, programmed to hate this person or that. Accepted that healthcare and college were both services that were the responsibility of the individual to pay for, and didn't try to foist that responsibility on someone else who DID work for a living, and degrade their quality of life as a result of that increased tax burden. Didn't view themself as a victim, because he/she recognized that no matter how bad their circumstances were, there were others that had worse and they overcame them and did not use their (false) claims of victimization as a means of manipulating others into giving them special resources and considerations. Didn't use or abuse drugs, didn't participate in destroying other people's lives by selling them, didn't leave debts at hospitals thereby driving up the cost of other people's healthcare to someone else, and didn't go to prison for whatever crime(s) you may have committed.
In a parallel universe there's a much better person who started off like you did, but didn't make any of the mistakes and bad decisions you did, and when that person made mistakes they admitted them and didn't expect productive people that did not make those mistakes to pay the price for them. There's a better "you" in that parallel universe, and that person is not part of the parasitic and determined underclass, who's only ambition is to suck as much of other people's resources before they finally, mercifully, die.
and where exactly can this paragon of perfection be found??
With Bernie Sanders making a legitimate push for his party's presidential nomination, I decided to delve in what a Social Democrat wants, and what their party is about. You hear Bernie mention the word "Revolution" quite often, and while this planted has had many "Revolutions" in it's history, most of them have ended in bloodshed and often with someone in power besides the persons who started the revolution.
So, social democrats out there, I ask for your help and opinions:
Here's how I see what social Democrats want America to look like:
1)Guaranteed Housing - The argument being that it's cheaper to house the homeless than to leave them on the street, and that basic housing is a "Right" that all humans deserve.
2)Universal Health Care - Health care is another human right, that none of us are born without, and so we are required to have the government supply and provide health care to all Americans.
3)Free Education - All education should be free, and further more, higher education should pay a stipend to offset the loss of wages from forgoing working years to pursue said higher education.
4)Access to Transportation - Every person should be able to easily commute to their place of employment, to basic services such as health care or food, and to basic entertainment or socializing, so that they can be happy. This entails drastically strengthening public transportation and radically reworking our economic system to reduce sprawl, reduce car use, and eliminate fossil fuel use.
5)Guaranteed Employment - Employment should ensure that Americans gain from it, and the government should assist everyone to find the job that makes them happiest.
6)Universal Income - Socialism should use the community "pool" of resources to ensure that all citizens are paid on an equal basis, with no jobs or professions more important or better than the next one.
7)Climate Change - Although not really a Socialist viewpoint, you can't mention Bernie Sanders without throwing in the desire of the Democratic Socialist party to eradicate climate change through Government spending on green companies, ideas, and movements.
That about sums it up. If I left anything out please feel free to add to the list. Ok so now the debate question. There's plenty of talk of raising taxes on the 1%'ers out there. But for us to become a completely socialist country, EVERYONE would have to be taxed. Even those for whom this is to benefit the most (those looking for the free ride). So, how would a government like our, which has three branches of government, and who's laws prevent them from intruding on the rights of the states without due course, how would you get the everyday common man to agree to give up his dollars, pay more in taxes, and change the way he/she has always done things? What if they refused?
What is the end game for these types of ideas and how do you fund it?
Thanks for helping me to understand...
It's an "end game", all right-- the end for the American Experiment, and the ethic that gave rise to it.
It casts the phrase "race to the bottom" in a whole new "light"?
Quote:
Originally Posted by latetotheparty
and where exactly can this paragon of perfection be found??
So, social democrats out there, I ask for your help and opinions:
Here's how I see what social Democrats want America to look like:
1)Guaranteed Housing - The argument being that it's cheaper to house the homeless than to leave them on the street, and that basic housing is a "Right" that all humans deserve.
2)Universal Health Care - Health care is another human right, that none of us are born without, and so we are required to have the government supply and provide health care to all Americans.
3)Free Education - All education should be free, and further more, higher education should pay a stipend to offset the loss of wages from forgoing working years to pursue said higher education.
4)Access to Transportation - Every person should be able to easily commute to their place of employment, to basic services such as health care or food, and to basic entertainment or socializing, so that they can be happy. This entails drastically strengthening public transportation and radically reworking our economic system to reduce sprawl, reduce car use, and eliminate fossil fuel use.
5)Guaranteed Employment - Employment should ensure that Americans gain from it, and the government should assist everyone to find the job that makes them happiest.
6)Universal Income - Socialism should use the community "pool" of resources to ensure that all citizens are paid on an equal basis, with no jobs or professions more important or better than the next one.
7)Climate Change - Although not really a Socialist viewpoint, you can't mention Bernie Sanders without throwing in the desire of the Democratic Socialist party to eradicate climate change through Government spending on green companies, ideas, and movements.
#1 is an economic and moral concept that makes more sense than the alternative. In Los Angeles, where I live, homelessness is a huge drain on the city. #2 is really just common sense, considering how terrible for-profit healthcare has been for the health of Americans. #3 is the best way to edge out China and our other competition on the global market now that manufacturing has effectively left America. #4 is something I've never heard Bernie Sanders or any other Democratic Socialist mention. #5 and #6 are communist, not socialist. I realize that most Americans think Socialism and Communism are interchangeable, but they are very different. #7 is again common sense. Denying man-made climate change is foolish and the politicians and moneyed interests who continue to fight efforts to do something about climate change are dooming us to a terrible future.
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