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Old 03-14-2016, 03:25 PM
Status: "It takes a lot of balls to golf like me" (set 8 days ago)
 
Location: Charleston, SC
3,922 posts, read 3,183,953 times
Reputation: 3381

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With Bernie Sanders making a legitimate push for his party's presidential nomination, I decided to delve in what a Social Democrat wants, and what their party is about. You hear Bernie mention the word "Revolution" quite often, and while this planted has had many "Revolutions" in it's history, most of them have ended in bloodshed and often with someone in power besides the persons who started the revolution.

So, social democrats out there, I ask for your help and opinions:

Here's how I see what social Democrats want America to look like:
1)Guaranteed Housing - The argument being that it's cheaper to house the homeless than to leave them on the street, and that basic housing is a "Right" that all humans deserve.

2)Universal Health Care - Health care is another human right, that none of us are born without, and so we are required to have the government supply and provide health care to all Americans.

3)Free Education - All education should be free, and further more, higher education should pay a stipend to offset the loss of wages from forgoing working years to pursue said higher education.

4)Access to Transportation - Every person should be able to easily commute to their place of employment, to basic services such as health care or food, and to basic entertainment or socializing, so that they can be happy. This entails drastically strengthening public transportation and radically reworking our economic system to reduce sprawl, reduce car use, and eliminate fossil fuel use.

5)Guaranteed Employment - Employment should ensure that Americans gain from it, and the government should assist everyone to find the job that makes them happiest.

6)Universal Income - Socialism should use the community "pool" of resources to ensure that all citizens are paid on an equal basis, with no jobs or professions more important or better than the next one.

7)Climate Change - Although not really a Socialist viewpoint, you can't mention Bernie Sanders without throwing in the desire of the Democratic Socialist party to eradicate climate change through Government spending on green companies, ideas, and movements.


That about sums it up. If I left anything out please feel free to add to the list. Ok so now the debate question. There's plenty of talk of raising taxes on the 1%'ers out there. But for us to become a completely socialist country, EVERYONE would have to be taxed. Even those for whom this is to benefit the most (those looking for the free ride). So, how would a government like our, which has three branches of government, and who's laws prevent them from intruding on the rights of the states without due course, how would you get the everyday common man to agree to give up his dollars, pay more in taxes, and change the way he/she has always done things? What if they refused?

What is the end game for these types of ideas and how do you fund it?

Thanks for helping me to understand...
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Old 03-14-2016, 03:37 PM
 
Location: Hiding from Antifa?
5,823 posts, read 3,765,015 times
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If there were a definition of what a Democratic Socialist was, then Bernie has changed it. It now means a socialist who, in order to run as a Democrat, calls himself a Democratic Socialist. Before he decided to run in the Democratic party he was not a member of the Democratic Party and called himself an Independent and a Socialist.
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Old 03-14-2016, 08:16 PM
 
Location: Frozen North
43 posts, read 27,661 times
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Not sure I know the real definition of Democratic Socialists, but if it requires agreeing with a number of your statements, then I guess we can count me in.

let's consider the current state of affairs for all of your points.

1) Homeless- I don't have any stats, but the majority of homeless people are there because the are not capable of functioning in our current society ( mental illness, unemployable, disabled...etc). They already cost us tax dollars, and is it really humane to leave them out there.

2)Universal Health Care, that's a debate all of its own. Currently we pay taxes in every county, every state, and to the Feds, and those of us that work pay those taxes along with our own insurance premiums, plus deductibles and copay. What all those billions of dollars pay for is every county, in every state to have an entire department that does nothing but qualify low income people for those health care dollars, then there are programs in every county for the disabled, the elderly and even the mentally ill. Don't forget about all the county health departments that spend those dollars as well.
The current health care systems include, Medicare, Medicaid, VA (inactive), Tricare or champus for active duty families, plus all the facilities on military bases, before the ACA the Feds even had their own system, that's a ton of people covered with our tax dollars. What does the average person get. The ability to spend another 500 to 1000 per month in premiums to the private sector. Why should our health be a profit making business?

3) do you have any idea how many people already get government grants and financial aide to go to college? There are scores of people working in buildings to process all that paperwork to decide who gets that money. Yep, our tax dollars. I'm neutral on the free, but goodness a college education is expensive.

4) We pay for public transportation and its only good in a few cities. This also ties into the "Save our planet" since we now have more cars than people. Have you ever wondered who's brilliant idea was it to cover our country in asphalt?

5) We already provide that to the disabled, the children of parents that are deceased, and of course we all get it when we reach whatever age they decide we can have it. After paying for it our entire working lives, on average 40 years. With all the programs we currently have, all we are accomplishing is paying people salaries in every county in every state, to again decide who gets those dollars and who doesn't.

6) We only have 1 earth, what's wrong with wanting to save it. Even if you don't believe in climate change. We can only dig, drill, frack, mine, scrape and polute it for so long, until there's nothing left, then what do we do?

To open your mind to these ideas, one must first consider all the things we currently pay for and what we as taxpayers actually get for that money.

The end game, "Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness" as all men are created equal, rights given to us by our "creator"
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Old 03-15-2016, 12:26 AM
Status: "It takes a lot of balls to golf like me" (set 8 days ago)
 
Location: Charleston, SC
3,922 posts, read 3,183,953 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyFranklin View Post
Indolent, uneducated, lazy, parentless and parasitic young people want it all, and they want it for free, and they want to enslave everyone else in order to get it. And they are willing to commit violence in order to get it. In short, the Mob. The mob has been around since Rome, and it was the cause of it's downfall too.

People have been buying weapons and ammunition in preparation for this for years. We're ready. It's "GO" time.
But, to play Devil'd Advocate here: I would have to assume that the majority of people who would want to vote in such a system, well, they would HAVE to realize that their taxes will go up as their incomes and freedoms go down wouldn't they?
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Old 03-15-2016, 12:53 AM
 
1,767 posts, read 1,097,212 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyFranklin View Post
Indolent, uneducated, lazy, parentless and parasitic young people want it all, and they want it for free, and they want to enslave everyone else in order to get it. And they are willing to commit violence in order to get it. In short, the Mob. The mob has been around since Rome, and it was the cause of it's downfall too.

People have been buying weapons and ammunition in preparation for this for years. We're ready. It's "GO" time.
Well you left out those indolent, uneducated, lazy, parentless, and parasitic old people. You know, the ones that take the largest share of government money. Well them and the indolent, lazy, parentless, and parasitic corporations. You know, the ones making sure the laws reflect their desires at all levels of government. The ones getting fat off no bid contracts and cost overruns. So just make sure that when you "GO" you're not just being played for the useful fool.
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Old 03-15-2016, 12:57 AM
 
Location: Tucson/Nogales
16,464 posts, read 19,996,430 times
Reputation: 22367
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyFranklin View Post
Indolent, uneducated, lazy, parentless and parasitic young people want it all, and they want it for free, and they want to enslave everyone else in order to get it.
If any class of people loves freebies more than the young and poor, that's the rich! They'll grab anything for free! Even if they don't need Social Security or Medicare, they'll grab it anyway!

Bernie Sanders created a revolution and it's on its way, and you can't put the cat back in the bag now. Too late!

You're going to see a whole host of Bernie-Sanders type clones out there, on a city, county, state and national level.

Already, there's a firebrand Bernie Sanders type running for the Senate in Pennsylvania and there's 2 others running, of his ilk, in a couple state legislative runs elsewhere in the country, and that's only the beginning. So, fasten your seatbelt!

I would like to term this movement: paying for the sins of the fathers!

A few "Fathers" come to mind: Andrew Mellon, Cornelius Vanderbilt, John D. Rockefeller
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Old 03-15-2016, 01:21 AM
 
Location: The New England part of Ohio
17,568 posts, read 21,741,355 times
Reputation: 44332
Quote:
Originally Posted by 0marvin0 View Post
Well you left out those indolent, uneducated, lazy, parentless, and parasitic old people. You know, the ones that take the largest share of government money. Well them and the indolent, lazy, parentless, and parasitic corporations. You know, the ones making sure the laws reflect their desires at all levels of government. The ones getting fat off no bid contracts and cost overruns. So just make sure that when you "GO" you're not just being played for the useful fool.

Yes. He left out the Corporatists. The true parasites in our country.
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Old 03-15-2016, 01:43 AM
 
6,013 posts, read 2,695,607 times
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I would be in favor of a voluntary dependency on govt cradle to grave.


But, if you want to opt into this, you turn over all your income to a new govt agency that takes all your money and manages your life for you.


So, you move to a low cost of living area, take whatever minimum wage job is available or created for you by moving people to these low cost areas. If you are single you get a few roomates decided by the state. If you are married, you agree to be sterilized after x number of kids.


The state then can fund and dictate your life since you cant manage your own life. Easy peasy.


Kind of like the old mill towns where everything people needed was furnished by the mill and the company store.


Anyone in the roughly 50% who are not now paying income tax who doesn't want to opt in to this system, starts paying income tax and then we'll talk about reasonable bennies from Uncle Sam for all of us.
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Old 03-15-2016, 05:30 AM
 
Location: Colorado Springs
4,320 posts, read 4,348,520 times
Reputation: 15239
I wish Bernie good luck, but I don't think Americans will support Scandinavian Socialism for two reasons:

1. It requires a huge tax rate, 50% +
2. We don't have a homogeneous population. We have way too many groups that won't support the other groups.
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Old 03-15-2016, 07:16 AM
 
Location: New Albany, Indiana (Greater Louisville)
9,583 posts, read 20,456,271 times
Reputation: 9077
America is not moving wholesale to European socialism. We are going to take on certain aspects of what Europe does and do them in our own way as time goes on. At certain times in history the USA has emulated Europe, at other times Europe has emulated the USA more. Right now Europe is setting the trends.


First off, nothing is free. People like socialism because they feel that they pay a lot in taxes and get a lot back. In America people pay almost as much in taxes but feel like they get little back in return and that someone else must be benefitting from our tax dollars. But Americans are fine with higher local taxes if they see the benefit locally, like a great local school district.
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