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How would you prove that the vaccine would have worked for the person if they had gotten it? No vaccine is 100%. Are you saying that I can sue the people who knowingly exposed my kids to strep and norovirus?
You're right. But at least if you were vaccinated you did everything you could to prevent it. Seatbelts aren't 100% effective either, but it's a hell of a lot more effective than not wearing one at all.
it does make you wonder what the real motive in this for- profit industry is.
I guarantee you that pharmaceutical companies would make more money by people paying for weeks of measles, whooping cough, polio, etc. treatment than they do from a few shots.
You're right. But at least if you were vaccinated you did everything you could to prevent it. Seatbelts aren't 100% effective either, but it's a hell of a lot more effective than not wearing one at all.
I'm not so sure that the "everything" part is that black and white though. If a person wishes to avoid serious complications from certain illness there is more they can do to stay healthy. I guess I just don't agree that getting a vaccine is the only thing that people can do to stay healthy survive illness.
Some more thoughts on illness, vaccines and liability.....
If a vaccinated person comes down with pertussis and they think that it can't possibly be pertussis because they had the vaccine, it must just be a terrible cough so they go to school, the grocery store, the library, the rec center, their best friend's birthday party and before you know it, 20 other people in the community have caught it. How can that person be off the hook when another person comes down with pertussis and exercises a whole lot more caution because they know they haven't been vaccinated so they stay home and only infect one of their family members?
Or the person with the flu vaccine who goes to work with the flu because they can't afford sick days and they expose everyone in the office. We all know this type of thing happens.
Or the mom who sends her kid to daycare with diarrhea but she's not worried because her baby had the rotavirus vaccine.
Vaccines are not 100% effective and people who get them can and do spread disease. Even people who vaccinate make decisions that put others at risk. Vaccines are not a magic bullet.
Location: Was Midvalley Oregon; Now Eastside Seattle area
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In 10 years, USA will see an increase in Rubella and subsequent terminations or child development issues.
In 2-5 year, we will see an the results of the Zika Virus. IMO.
Has any law been established regarding non-vaccinated children who become the center of an epidemic?
If polio, mumps, rubella, whooping cough, etc begin to claim lives again, can the parents of the children who began spreading the disease be held liable to pay financial restitution to the families of those they made ill?
I haven't paid much attention to this anti-vaxxing phenomenon until a couple days ago Robert Deniro mentioned that his wife noticed their child develop autistic symptoms overnight after receiving a vaccine with mercury as a basic ingredient in it.
Robert Deniro is a fairly level-headed man.
Perhaps some children in very rare cases really are developing autism after vaccination.
As for my kids, they've all been 100% vaccinated with no problems. I'm pro-vaccination.
If indeed some children are developing autism over this, I hate to say it but isn't it better to have a rare child here & there with autism than an epidemic outbreak of horribly crippling, deadly diseases?
As far as I know, anti-vaccination in California do not believe in vaccination.
An ounce of prevention is better than a pound of cure
Of course they are liable. But first they are victims of other anti-vaxers!
Related anecdote: almost 20 years ago I asked my bio teacher "are you sure your body can handle putting all of those vitamins [in a multi-vitamin] at once? She looked at me like I was cray cray, but it seemed like common sense to me.
Turns out I recently got diagnosed with severe iron definiency. Funny thing is- calcium impairs iron absorbing. We also know now that too much copper may throw off your zinc. You need vitamin D to absorb the calcium you take, etc.
My best semi-educated guess on this is that common sense tells us that putting up to 30 dead viruses in a kid at a time is not the smartest thing to do. Some, even a very few, might get sick from this and apparently most do not. Some smokers will get lung cancer, some wont, and even some nonsmokers will. Few are allergic to penicillin, most are not, etc.
In a perfect world we would space the vaxxes out "just in case."
We may also wanna reconsider if *all* of the current vaxxes are nessesary. Hep B? Chicken pox? And dozens more yet my insurance won't pay for Gardisil because I'm over 27 and they "assume" I've already been exposed to HPV even if I'm a virgin.
A lot of stuff in the Vax world make no sense on the surface so it does make you wonder what the real motive in this for- profit industry is.
1. Are you aware how many antigens you are exposed to on a given day? We are constantly exposed to hundreds of them. And what are you referring to, 30 dead viruses?
2. The object of the vaccine schedule is to get babies protected as quickly as possible, especially from diseases such as pertussis, diphtheria, job and pneumococcal disease.
3. Of course all these vaccines are necessary. 30% of Hepatitis B cases have no known transmission source. How they got it is unknown. 90% of infants who get Hep B become chronically ill with it; they have it for life. Older kids and adults usually recover completely. Another big risk factor is living with someone with active hep b, which can change from no to yes overnight if someone new joins the household.
About 100 people per year died from chickenpox before the vaccine. People who have been vaccinated also have a lower risk of shingles. There are not "dozens"more. Your insurance won't pay for you to get HPV over age 26 because the vaccine hasn't been tested on people over 26.
4. Vaccines are not a big money-maker for anyone; physician or pharma company.
If you don't think that doctors, etc. are getting rich then I don't know what to tell you. How many people are in the U.S? Billions? Maybe you skipped math class. I'll stick to taking natural herbs that my wife makes, you & your can do whatever you want with your body. But kindly keep your shots, etc to yourselves.
I did not skip any math classes and regularly do math and even algebra.
As Google apparently doesn't function on your computer, I'll point out there are about 320 million people in the US, and only a small percentage of those are of age to get vaccines. Also there are only about 68,000 general-practice pediatricians.
Doctors may be getting rich, but it is most definitely not because of vaccines.
As you likely won't read the "No they aren't" article because it may contain actual information, I'll just point out that vaccines make up a little under 2% of Big Pharma's profit margins. That's a rounding error. It is a profit, but no one would lose a bonus if it went away.
As for the "VaxTruth" smoking-gun article, they make a big deal over the fact that in the first year your average doctor earns $1280 in office fees and $370 in vaccination fees over 7 visits with 14 shots. I work in a professional office (engineering, not doctor). While that may seem like a lot of money, I can tell you that $370 over a year will barely cover the time-cost needed to file insurance claims on 7 visits and 14 shots.
Yes, they make a profit, but so does the company that sells your wife whatever she needs to make your herb concoctions... and I'd bet money that the herb company has a much higher profit margin than a doctor does with vaccines.
Before the invention of vaccines, measles by itself infected 500,000 - 4 million people every year, and killed 500 to 4,000 (depending on which year and which estimate). Then the vaccine came along, and deaths dropped to zero... until a few years ago and all the outbreaks traced to the idiot anti-vaccers so worried about letting a doctor have a few dollars that people are actually dying.
I'm not so sure that the "everything" part is that black and white though. If a person wishes to avoid serious complications from certain illness there is more they can do to stay healthy. I guess I just don't agree that getting a vaccine is the only thing that people can do to stay healthy survive illness.
Some more thoughts on illness, vaccines and liability.....
If a vaccinated person comes down with pertussis and they think that it can't possibly be pertussis because they had the vaccine, it must just be a terrible cough so they go to school, the grocery store, the library, the rec center, their best friend's birthday party and before you know it, 20 other people in the community have caught it. How can that person be off the hook when another person comes down with pertussis and exercises a whole lot more caution because they know they haven't been vaccinated so they stay home and only infect one of their family members?
Or the person with the flu vaccine who goes to work with the flu because they can't afford sick days and they expose everyone in the office. We all know this type of thing happens.
Or the mom who sends her kid to daycare with diarrhea but she's not worried because her baby had the rotavirus vaccine.
Vaccines are not 100% effective and people who get them can and do spread disease. Even people who vaccinate make decisions that put others at risk. Vaccines are not a magic bullet.
You do not have to do anything to survive an illness you never get. Prevent it with the vaccine and you have nothing to treat.
However, the majority of people who take vaccines do not catch the diseases they are designed to prevent.
Anyone who is sick should stay home. If I am coughing my head off the last thing I want to do is gallivant around town exposing everyone else to whatever I might have, whether it's whooping cough or something more benign. Your implication s that someone who has been vaccinated is less responsible than someone who is not. Sorry, the non-vaccinating mom is just as likely load up the car with sick kids and do what she wants to do as someone who has the kids vaccinated.
The mom who sends her child to day care with diarrhea is irresponsible whether her child has been vaccinated for rotavirus or not, and if I were the owner of that day care I probably would tell her to take her child home and not come back.
Sure it's possible for someone to have a vaccine fail, get sick, and infect someone else. However, when vaccinated people do have breakthrough infections they tend to be milder, with fewer and a shorter duration of symptoms. Though you really want to believe otherwise, it's not vaccinated people that are at the center of disease outbreaks, it's the unvaccinated, whether it's measles or whooping cough.
"So, the tiered model of antibody response leaves a small percentage of vaccinated people susceptible. But note: It’s also the reason why you’re better off being vaccinated even if you end up getting infected. Your antibody levels might not be high enough to completely protect you, but they’ll still help—the CDC has seen vaccinated patients with measles who only get a rash for about an hour, says Wallace. And, importantly for octogenarians (whose immune systems are weaker) and infants, vaccinated patients are much less likely to transmit the disease to other people."
Vaccinated people who do get infected are less ill, get well quicker, and have the opportunity to infect fewer people. In fact, there has been exactly one measles outbreak traced to a fully vaccinated person. One. Just one. The initial patient infected 4 out of 88 people who were exposed to her.
Vaccines are as close to magic bullets as any medical intervention we have. The smallpox vaccine was certainly a magic bullet. No one in the world has gotten the natural disease since 1977. The polio vaccine has been a magic bullet for all but two countries. Measles has been eliminated in the entire western hemisphere: the only cases are imported.
It's not the vaccinated folks that are causing the rise in whooping cough and the larger measles outbreaks we are seeing. Also, when outbreaks hit the unvaccinated communities they do get their kids vaccinated when they see how sick those diseases make people. Concern about autism seems to evaporate.
I would love to hear an explanation of how people who vaccinate put others at risk. Please elaborate.
For the life of me I cannot understand how a supposedly educated person such as deniro can come out and speak against vaccinating when it Is only his opinion and only that . He is not a medical professional so I don't understand how some can take his word for it and not get the kids vaccinated . He did say he was not anti vaccinations he wants what he called safe vaccines whatever that means .
De Niro is a high school dropout. His last science course was likely never. We all want safe vaccines. The vaccines we have are extremely safe. It is hard to find any documented deaths from them. Scientists are constantly working to improve vaccines, which are very good now.
Last edited by Katarina Witt; 04-16-2016 at 10:17 PM..
You do not have to do anything to survive an illness you never get. Prevent it with the vaccine and you have nothing to treat.
Really? Are you suggesting that all vaccines are 100% effective. How then do people who are fully vaccinated catch vpd from others since like you say, they have nothing to worry about?
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However, the majority of people who take vaccines do not catch the diseases they are designed to prevent.
Backtracking on your previous dishonest statement? If the majority have nothing to worry about then why are you obsessed with forcing the issue of vaccines on everyone?
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Anyone who is sick should stay home. If I am coughing my head off the last thing I want to do is gallivant around town exposing everyone else to whatever I might have, whether it's whooping cough or something more benign. Your implication s that someone who has been vaccinated is less responsible than someone who is not. Sorry, the non-vaccinating mom is just as likely load up the car with sick kids and do what she wants to do as someone who has the kids vaccinated.
The mom who sends her child to day care with diarrhea is irresponsible whether her child has been vaccinated for rotavirus or not, and if I were the owner of that day care I probably would tell her to take her child home and not come back.
What I'm saying is that everyone, not just unvaccinated need to be aware of and take responsibility for not sharing their germs. Many people don't, even those who are fully vaccinated. Vaccination is not the only thing that people can do to stay healthy.
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Sure it's possible for someone to have a vaccine fail, get sick, and infect someone else. However, when vaccinated people do have breakthrough infections they tend to be milder, with fewer and a shorter duration of symptoms. Though you really want to believe otherwise, it's not vaccinated people that are at the center of disease outbreaks, it's the unvaccinated, whether it's measles or whooping cough.
Vaccinated people who do get infected are less ill, get well quicker, and have the opportunity to infect fewer people. In fact, there has been exactly one measles outbreak traced to a fully vaccinated person. One. Just one. The initial patient infected 4 out of 88 people who were exposed to her.
Again, if their illnesses are so mild, why are you so worried?
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Vaccines are as close to magic bullets as any medical intervention we have. The smallpox vaccine was certainly a magic bullet. No one in the world has gotten the natural disease since 1977. The polio vaccine has been a magic bullet for all but two countries. Measles has been eliminated in the entire western hemisphere: the only cases are imported.
If the only cases are imported then why not focus on international travel instead of every kindergartener in the USA as your target?
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It's not the vaccinated folks that are causing the rise in whooping cough and the larger measles outbreaks we are seeing. Also, when outbreaks hit the unvaccinated communities they do get their kids vaccinated when they see how sick those diseases make people. Concern about autism seems to evaporate.
More double speak. The vaccinated don't get as sick but we are so terrified that we must force everyone to get vaccinated or else. In regards to pertussis, mutations are the suspected root cause of outbreaks. Measles are a result if international travelers. That's what you said, isn't it?
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I would love to hear an explanation of how people who vaccinate put others at risk. Please elaborate.
Based on your explanation in this post, I'd love to hear an explanation of how the unvaccinated put the fully vaccinated at risk when their illnesses are so mild.
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