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I'm not sure if you do either. Because the term, "transgender" serves as an umbrella. It is not specific to transsexuals. It is used to describe not only transsexuals, but transvestites, cross dressers, drag queens, drag kings, asexual people, androgynous people, hermaphrodites, etc... I Am Transgender
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I believe transgenderism is strictly a mental condition. This is why those who decide to become transsexuals have to go through a certain amount of psychological counseling. And, I believe it is a choice. A person chooses to dress in the opposite sex's clothes. Based on a feeling. They choose to take hormonal treatments - based on a feeling. They choose the surgery - based on a feeling. Nobody has forced them to dress in the opposite sex's clothes or to go through the physical transformations. So, why is it that the rest of us have to be legislated by our government to tell us that we need to allow these people the right to choose which bathroom they wish to use?
It's true, "transgender" is really an umbrella term and some transsexuals take offense to being referred to as transgender rather than transsexuals. But other transsexuals use the term interchangeably and have no problem with it.
As to your other point, trans people have to undergo psychological counseling, and guess what? They are usually APPROVED for "gender reassignment" (or whatever it's called nowadays). Meaning that a psychiatrist has determined that these people are mentally fit to go ahead and transition to the opposite sex. A psychiatrist is a doctor who specializes in treating mental conditions, and therefore that person doesn't consider these people mentally ill just because they feel they were born into the wrong body. On the contrary, the psychiatrist recognizes that these people simply need to have their body match their mind.
The idea that trans people can use the bathroom of their choice shouldn't be an issue unless people make it one. What do you think has been happening during all the years that have gone by? Trans people have been using whatever bathroom they wish to use.
I do believe you are the first person in this thread who has said they were transgender. Thank you for posting.
This thread kind of turned from the quick answer I was originally expecting, and the bathroom issue has taken up a large part of it. I personally did not know that the NC law had to do with so many different criteria all just bundled into one. I have met some transgender MTF who I flat out would not have known unless I had been told, and there are some that you can spot kind of easy. I think people should be able to easily understand that anyone who has completed the steps/surgery is not going to be able to flop right back. The problem I have and it sounds like you all ready know is...
What would stop a man from putting on a dress, and going into; a bathroom, lockerroom, changing room, etc... and recording or worse, based on their "protection from being discriminated against" as long as they don't get caught recording???
Me personally, again, its not the "finished" transgender, its the ... "grey area" that I think we all know is going to be taken advantage of. I know its not their fault, but I do see it as they are creating an opening for the problem to begin.
(really not trying to be offensive, on my wording).
What would stop a man from putting on a dress, and going into; a bathroom, lockerroom, changing room, etc... and recording or worse, based on their "protection from being discriminated against" as long as they don't get caught recording???
It's true, "transgender" is really an umbrella term and some transsexuals take offense to being referred to as transgender rather than transsexuals. But other transsexuals use the term interchangeably and have no problem with it.
As to your other point, trans people have to undergo psychological counseling, and guess what? They are usually APPROVED for "gender reassignment" (or whatever it's called nowadays). Meaning that a psychiatrist has determined that these people are mentally fit to go ahead and transition to the opposite sex. A psychiatrist is a doctor who specializes in treating mental conditions, and therefore that person doesn't consider these people mentally ill just because they feel they were born into the wrong body. On the contrary, the psychiatrist recognizes that these people simply need to have their body match their mind.
In my opinion, they are usually approved on a technicality that a psychological condition is only considered a mental disorder if it causes significant distress or disability. The thought is that most transgenders do not suffer from such distress or disability over their gender identity, therefore, they are approved for the physical treatments. Where as someone who is schizophrenic could indicate such distress that it interferes with his/her normal, daily life. In another words, I believe psychologists and psychiatrists probably don't have a lot of choice in the matter.
But on the other side of it, there are no physical abnormalities. The resulting anatomy is in line with the chromosomal DNA. So, there isn't really any real evidence that the person was born in the wrong body. There is no proof of defect. It really comes down to being in line with the thinking of those who undergo plastic surgery to improve certain superficial features. If it isn't a mental condition, it most certainly isn't a physical condition either.
Quote:
Originally Posted by UrbanCrossroads
The idea that trans people can use the bathroom of their choice shouldn't be an issue unless people make it one. What do you think has been happening during all the years that have gone by? Trans people have been using whatever bathroom they wish to use.
But again, keep in mind, who, specifically, are you talking about when you say transgender? A transsexual or someone who simply dresses in the other gender's clothes? Or, an asexual person? Because, I can just about tell you that I can see the difference between a real woman and a man with no treatments whatsoever that is dressed up like a woman. As far as a transsexual, yes, I've probably been to the bathroom at some point with a transsexual, although I wouldn't doubt that the chances of that happening is probably much lower than a transsexual M-To-F.
This thread kind of turned from the quick answer I was originally expecting, and the bathroom issue has taken up a large part of it. I personally did not know that the NC law had to do with so many different criteria all just bundled into one. I have met some transgender MTF who I flat out would not have known unless I had been told, and there are some that you can spot kind of easy. I think people should be able to easily understand that anyone who has completed the steps/surgery is not going to be able to flop right back. The problem I have and it sounds like you all ready know is...
What would stop a man from putting on a dress, and going into; a bathroom, lockerroom, changing room, etc... and recording or worse, based on their "protection from being discriminated against" as long as they don't get caught recording???
The argument with that is what's stopping them from doing that now? I think there would be a bit more of a challenge to prosecute had the Charlotte ordinance passed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by adriver
Me personally, again, its not the "finished" transgender, its the ... "grey area" that I think we all know is going to be taken advantage of. I know its not their fault, but I do see it as they are creating an opening for the problem to begin.
(really not trying to be offensive, on my wording).
The thing is, if they singled it down to transsexuals, even those who are pre-op, and said they're allowed to choose whichever bathroom they feel most comfortable with, that would still be an issue considering that it would be discriminating against the others who fall under that umbrella. So, it's sort of an all or nothing approach.
I do not care about other people generally let alone their gender identity. I do not think it is intelligent to let some 40 year old man to self identify as whatever he wishes and sit in public restrooms all day taking pictures of little girls from his hidden camera in his backpack.
You do realise women's bathroom don't have urinals, don't you?
T is there because it's them who started Stonewall riot and before... Ts were always most visible and because of that - on the very front line of LGB rights fight.
I can tell you from my experience as a sometime patron of the Stonewall that you are wrong. They were always a very small part of the crowd.
If you don't believe me read Stonewall by David Carter. The best book on the event because he stuck to interviews with participants for his information.
Because it gives more votes to the LBG voting block to include T.
I think you are right in part.
The LGBT acronym gained its currency in the 90's, and it made sense to cast the net as wide as possible for political reasons largely. The acronym also got away from using "Gay" as the blanket term, but which now had the stigma of AIDS attached to it. By the mid-90's there were enough younger people who definitely did not want the gay(=AIDS) label and the transition to LGBT was an easy one.
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