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Location: In a little house on the prairie - literally
10,202 posts, read 7,919,895 times
Reputation: 4561
Quote:
Originally Posted by waltergulick
I thank you for a thoughtful and civil rebuttal.
Uncommon on these forums!
I had to rep you on that alone!
I will only say that IMO it is laughable to think that the SCOTUS can declare something to be a violation of the separation clause when clearly the very people who wrote it did not think it was, as is evidenced by the fact that it was practiced since the establishment of our country.
How can people not see how ridiculous that notion is?
Praying before opening a session of congress is a violation of the separation clause? Yet the people who actually wrote the separation clause prayed before opening their own sessions??/
Simply ridiculous!
Thanks for the rep. Civility gets one a lot further than name calling, especially if one's perspective is not the same. I doubt that many of these discussions change anyone's mind; if anything, it goes to show how difficult an issue it is to deal with gun violence and what to do with the mass shootings that are occurring way to frequently. Retrenching to the 2nd amendment doesn't solve anything, but then, I don't have the answer as to what will either.
In the Orlando case, the bar was a gun free zone, the shooter had been investigated a number of times for possible Islamic extremist views, yet was a licensed security guard. Did the system breakdown, or was there just not enough evidence, and did the system protect due process? It doesn't matter, 49 people are dead, some others may be carrying life long disabilities, and 100's of family members are impacted.
[1] I cannot believe that we are still quoting from Scripture at this late date! People are dying!
[2] If civilians were dying from rampant gun violence in 1770 there would have been a different wording of the 2nd Amendment. But they were not. All the violence was between political and ideological enemies. Today the violence can be between any number of bad actors and innocents. Soft targets abound in so free and open a society.
[1] I can't believe that someone equates the FEDERALIST PAPERS to scripture.
[2] The only beneficiaries of a disarmed public are PREDATORS. Armed or not, predators will prey on the weak.
If the sec amendment is in place, anit nobody banning or taking away any AR15's or shortening clips. period.
If we can't enforce the over 20,000 gun laws in the books today, what makes people think adding more laws is going accomplish but put more burden on our system?
Ounce again, we're going though the knee jerking process. It will soon be over and life will resume. Its sad.
Just out of curiosity- how does one actually get on this hallowed "no fly list"? When someone's name comes up to be put on it, do they have the opportunity to defend themselves? To say, "Hey wait a minute, you have me confused with someone else"?
I can only offer this:
My friend has a rather common last name (think Smith, Jones). She and her husband named their child in honor of a grandparent; the grandparent's name was Italian, but also popular in a few other countries. The first time they attempted to fly as a family to visit relatives in Italy, their toddler son was denied as his name was on the "no fly" list. Somewhere else was an adult with the same name who was on the no fly list.
One would think this would be easy to correct: birth certificate, SSN, hospital records would prove the child was too young to be a terrorist. Just not that simple when you're dealing with the Federal Government. They sent everything in, he was cleared. The following year it was the same problem.
It took several years before it was straightened out and the son assigned a special I D to keep him off the no fly list.
We get it you want gun confiscation not "gun control".
The "NO FLY" list has tens of millions of names and is notoriously wrong. Once you get on it you can't get off. There are no social security numbers, and do you think there are tens of millions of unique names?
Apparently you missed the fact that the Boston Bombing didn't even involve guns and every mass murderer to DATE has had family and friends and psychiatrists who knew something was going on.
Try punishing the people who KNEW and said NOTHING like the wife of the Pulse killer who is possibly going to be arrested for being an accomplice as we speak.
I'm not wasting any more time typing to you since you have other issues like "capitalist" problems.
Our RIGHTS don't come from any government politicians. The Constitution is written to LIMIT the power of government. The 2nd Amendment protects the 1st Amendment. THAT'S your reason.
I usually don't come into GD because of the exalted atmosphere but, this post says it all, IMO. What else is there to say on the subject ?
Guns need to be looked at. They are a part of this problem. I say A PART of it, not all of it, for all you 2nd amendment "enthusiasts" out there. That said, the constitution is up for interpretation and the 2nd amendment can definitely be, and has been, interpreted differently than the present. I'm quite convinced that the founding fathers - men who were MORE than willing to disarm the populations they considered threats - slaves, Indians, rabble-rousers, angry farmers in western PA upset about taxes, etc... - would be the first to propose qualifications to the 2nd amendment given our current context.
However, any "reasonable" gun control that could possibly be passed - most likely stringent background checks and waiting periods - would only moderately reduce these mass shooting events.
The big lift will be cultural. As an entire society, we need to shame people - the people who are irresponsible with their weapons, the people who's best friend, cousin or brother is "not quite right" or "on someone's list" and did nothing... THOSE people need to be shamed. I'm hoping that Mateen's wife and family go on trial. There is no way in effing heck they knew nothing.
I already shame my fellow gun owners for looking the other way on these tragedies. If you own a gun and have ANY sense of responsibility whatsoever, you should the THE FIRST to raise your hand and say you're part of the solution, not the problem. I am continually ashamed at my fellow gun owners that wax on about "their rights" in the wake of these horrible tragedies and I am particularly ashamed of gun cultists that fetishize the destructive power of these weapons. Or calling for a bunch of un-trained and unsuitable people to carry.
I was in the Army for 6 years... you know, we took weapons SERIOUSLY. We didn't eff around with them. Once, early in my career, ONCE - I had a negligent discharge (I was being flippant when clearing it at the end of an exercise, did not properly clear it). I'll never forget the reaction by my squad leader and the consequences that occurred afterwards. Taught me a lesson that I'll never forget - that a firearm is a DEADLY and HEAVY responsibility.
Last edited by redguard57; 06-19-2016 at 10:16 PM..
I don't even see why there is a gun debate. This mass murder has nothing to do with guns. It has to do with a radical Islamist terrorist. After 9/11 did we talk about banning box cutters? The gun debate is just a tactic used to get peoples minds off the real issue.
I don't even see why there is a gun debate. This mass murder has nothing to do with guns. It has to do with a radical Islamist terrorist. After 9/11 did we talk about banning box cutters? The gun debate is just a tactic used to get peoples minds off the real issue.
Mateen's connection to ISIS was, at best, as a fanboy. He was not under any direction from them.
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