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Old 07-11-2016, 05:53 PM
 
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all the American violence stuff is a bunch of BS. Violence is part of the world. It's part of mankind and the animal kingdom. In human society it's everywhere. Is America more violent then the Middle East, Central and South America? Certainly not. Is it more violent than Europe? Doubtful. How about Asia where everyday I read about someone in China stabbing someone to death. SE Asia? Surely they are all peaceful right? ....except for the ISIS in the Philippines cutting off western tourists heads. I have traveled all through eastern and western europe, asia and all over the U.S. and I feel much more safe anywhere in the U.S. then I do anywhere abroad especially these days
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Old 07-11-2016, 05:57 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nonesuch View Post
"America" is not homogeneous any more than "Europe" is, so it's disingenuous at best to talk about American violence.

For example, Northern New England (Maine, Vermont, New Hampshire) have lower violent crime and homicide rates than Canada and many other "first world" nations.


Care to explain away Northern New England? ME/VT/NH have almost no gun laws, little restriction on concealed carry, and yet low crime rates.

New Hampshire, for example, has repealed almost all weapons laws, has the highest per-capita ownership of legal machine guns in the country, and yet has homicide rate that puts the state on par with most European "states".
No explanations needed. All of the statistics and facts prove that places in the U.S. that have the least restrictive gun laws and allow concealed and open carry have the lowest crime rates. The places with the most restrictive gun laws? D.C., Illinois (Chicago), NY, NJ, CA. All the places with high crime rates. 90% of the people committing violent crime would think twice if they thought there was a chance their victim had a loaded gun on their hip.
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Old 07-11-2016, 06:55 PM
 
Location: Central IL
13,349 posts, read 7,121,412 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nonesuch View Post
"America" is not homogeneous any more than "Europe" is, so it's disingenuous at best to talk about American violence.

For example, Northern New England (Maine, Vermont, New Hampshire) have lower violent crime and homicide rates than Canada and many other "first world" nations.


Care to explain away Northern New England? ME/VT/NH have almost no gun laws, little restriction on concealed carry, and yet low crime rates.

New Hampshire, for example, has repealed almost all weapons laws, has the highest per-capita ownership of legal machine guns in the country, and yet has homicide rate that puts the state on par with most European "states".
Much lower population density compared to other nearby states? Maine, Vermont, and New Hampshire are practically the Montana, S. Dakota, and N. Dakota of New England.
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Old 07-11-2016, 08:46 PM
 
Location: West Madison^WMHT
3,173 posts, read 2,742,027 times
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Question Maybe it's the maple syrup?

Quote:
Originally Posted by reneeh63 View Post
Much lower population density compared to other nearby states? Maine, Vermont, and New Hampshire are practically the Montana, S. Dakota, and N. Dakota of New England.
Yet the actual Montana, S. Dakota, and N. Dakota have higher violent crime and homicide rates than Maine, Vermont, and New Hampshire, as does Canada.
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Old 07-11-2016, 09:26 PM
 
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Here's a fact that's never mentioned when discussing gun deaths in the United States: approximately sixty percent of them are suicides. If you don't believe me check your own state's statistics at your State Department of Health site.


Considering that we are prolonging life past the point of quality living for a number of people with painful, chronic and terminal conditions the solution of ending one's own life by gun is a much more fool-proof method than a lot of other choices desperate people have.


So one way we could cut gun-related deaths by over half in this country is to offer medically assisted life termination. Surprise.
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Old 07-12-2016, 11:45 AM
 
Location: Nescopeck, Penna.
11,362 posts, read 6,786,875 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NOLA101 View Post
Americans don't have a "propensity for violence". In fact crime rates tend to be lower than other first world western nations.

The difference in the U.S. is the ready availability of guns, esp. high powered weaponry. No other country has such insane gun laws, hence we have far more homicides. Yet the politicians don't care. They're bought by the NRA.

You see with that horrible Dallas shooting, there were 20-30 guys open carrying, and when the cops started getting executed, the cops were totally confused and had no idea who was who (and of course all the gun-toting "good guys" ran away, putting a lie to the notion that open carry protects the public). Both the Mayor and Police Chief say that changes to the law are necessary. But no chance in Texas of 2016.

And all I'm going to add at this point is that the outlawing (or heavy "discouragement") of the possession of personal firearms by private citizens, would leave a disarmed people open to the wholesale oppression and bloodshed which characterized the "more civilized" Europe the most strident of the Politically Correct would love to impose upon all of us. That was the central focus of my original post.

Admittedly, that would be a long stretch, and the strength of the belief in a skeptical, armed citizenry would make it impossible to impose in much of the country, but make no mistake: It is one of the goals of the former Sixties radicals who are hijacking American democracy.

Last edited by 2nd trick op; 07-12-2016 at 12:25 PM..
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Old 07-12-2016, 12:53 PM
 
Location: Myrtle Creek, Oregon
11,042 posts, read 11,455,634 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ryanms3030 View Post
No explanations needed. All of the statistics and facts prove that places in the U.S. that have the least restrictive gun laws and allow concealed and open carry have the lowest crime rates. The places with the most restrictive gun laws? D.C., Illinois (Chicago), NY, NJ, CA. All the places with high crime rates. 90% of the people committing violent crime would think twice if they thought there was a chance their victim had a loaded gun on their hip.
Those restrictive gun laws were passed in an attempt to make the War On (some) Drugs less bloody and violent. Marijuana was made a federal crime because, at the time, the use was restricted to blacks and Mexicans. Nobody actually cared if they smoked a joint, it just made it easier for the police to roust them. It criminalized an entire culture. Alcohol prohibition made criminals out of anyone who drank alcohol. Drug prohibition made criminals out of anyone who used recreational drugs. Criminals have no recourse to civil courts, so their only means of settling disputes is violence. Violence escalates. The violence in all those areas has been legislated.

Criminal activity in the USA is a social problem. Trying to eliminate criminals by making more things illegal is insane. It always has exactly the opposite effect.
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Old 07-12-2016, 02:31 PM
 
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You've got it backwards, Larry. Laws don't criminalize people. People become criminals because they refuse to follow the laws.
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Old 07-13-2016, 03:13 PM
 
Location: Myrtle Creek, Oregon
11,042 posts, read 11,455,634 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lodestar View Post
You've got it backwards, Larry. Laws don't criminalize people. People become criminals because they refuse to follow the laws.
Not in America. We pass random laws that criminalize normal, desirable human behavior. For instance, if you have oral sex in several states, you are a criminal. That law was obviously intended to be selectively enforced. A cop could roust a gay couple while ignoring the woman giving her husband a bj. How about that law in Arizona that people had to produce proof of citizenship or a visa? How many white people do you think were subject to arrest if they couldn't produce their birth certificate?

And whatever you do, don't try selling peanuts after sundown on Wednesday in Alabama. Who do you suppose got arrested for that crime?
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Old 07-13-2016, 03:44 PM
 
4,498 posts, read 2,765,220 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Caldwell View Post
Not in America. We pass random laws that criminalize normal, desirable human behavior. For instance, if you have oral sex in several states, you are a criminal. That law was obviously intended to be selectively enforced. A cop could roust a gay couple while ignoring the woman giving her husband a bj. How about that law in Arizona that people had to produce proof of citizenship or a visa? How many white people do you think were subject to arrest if they couldn't produce their birth certificate?

And whatever you do, don't try selling peanuts after sundown on Wednesday in Alabama. Who do you suppose got arrested for that crime?
We do have entirely too many laws and regulations in this country. If we didn't have so many laws, we wouldn't have so many criminals. Murder should be illegal as should rape and other forms of physical assault. Various forms of theft should be illegal. Add some traffic laws but beyond that most of the laws that are enacted are to keep the machine running
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