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Old 09-22-2016, 05:31 PM
 
8,524 posts, read 2,392,842 times
Reputation: 8128

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Quote:
Originally Posted by chadgates View Post
Of course it is purposeful. Just look at virtually every TV sitcom out there today.

The dad is an idiot constantly causing the family one problem after the next and it is the wife and/or even the children who come to the rescue and save the day.

That isn't by accident.
I guess Hollywood is a plot.

The fact that French plays and other such things had the same basic characters centuries ago - well, we all know the French Guys wear tiny speedos....so we can dismiss that and stay with a Hollywood Plot.

The pastor told me so. Or Breitbard. Actually, I forgot who told me - may have been Joe McCarthy.

 
Old 09-22-2016, 05:36 PM
 
Location: Nescopeck, Penna.
11,370 posts, read 6,790,399 times
Reputation: 14412
I have to stand corrected, but only in part; here's a link to Wikipedia:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_sex_ratio

Males do outnumber females at birth. but the circumstances by which the population is reduced (loss of women to childbirth and poverty, men to primitive industry and war) have changed to favor women in the advanced societies over the past century. Only the Middle East and a few other parts of the Third World retain a surplus of men.

But the point remains; Both greater options for single women, and the deindustrialization of society increase the pressures faced by the "traditional" male. Demands for physical strength and stamina have given way to demands for an ability to handle stress, and both agrarian and heavy-industrial settings (not to mention the lessons given in both contact sports and the military) conditioned that male to react both quickly and physically; now we're conditioned to "suck it up" and the resentments build along with the blood pressure.

Business Administration curricula at many schools, my own alma mater among them, now include mandatory courses in organizational behavior, and I can attest from personal exposure that the man or woman who seeks to distance him/herself from cliques and politicking and to advance on empirical merit alone, is usually not encouraged. The large office full of "interchangeable parts" resembles nothing so much as a classroom -- and a junior high classroom at that.

I doubt that much can be done to alleviate this on an individual basis; pride and a sense of personal integrity are just too strong. Paul Newman's "Cool Hand Luke" persona wouldn't stand any better a chance than any of the clowns portrayed by the Hollywood of today.
 
Old 09-22-2016, 05:41 PM
 
8,524 posts, read 2,392,842 times
Reputation: 8128
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2nd trick op View Post

Business Administration curricula at many schools, my own alma mater among them, now include mandatory courses in organizational behavior, and I can attest from personal exposure that the man or woman who seeks to distance him/herself from cliques and politicking and to advance on empirical merit alone, is usually not encouraged. The large office full of "interchangeable parts" resembles nothing so much as a classroom -- and a junior high classroom at that.

I doubt that much can be done to alleviate this on an individual basis; pride and a sense of personal integrity are just too strong. Paul Newman's "Cool Hand Luke" persona wouldn't stand any better a chance than any of the clowns portrayed by the Hollywood of today.
Your words ring true - BUT,

In all the Male Clubs of early Great Britain or even New York and Boston, weren't there unspoken agreement to "be" a certain way?

And since the Clubs are now the business schools which contain a MUCH more diverse crowd, shouldn't things be different?

Or should it be like that old Men's Clubs of old?

This is school, right? Once said student leaves they can use whatever succeeds for them to advance, right?
 
Old 09-22-2016, 05:46 PM
 
Location: Central IL
13,363 posts, read 7,128,759 times
Reputation: 31075
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2nd trick op View Post
Live births of females have always outnumbered males by a small percentage, but until recently (in historic terms), deaths in childbirth quickly wiped out that disparity, and more -- simple historical fact, backed up by recent census figures.

WRONG - not true:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_sex_ratio
In a study around 2002, the natural sex ratio at birth was estimated to be close to 1.06 males/female.[7] In most populations, adult males tend to have higher death rates than adult females of the same age (even after allowing for causes specific to females such as death in childbirth), both due to natural causes such as heart attacks and strokes, which account for by far the majority of deaths and also to violent causes, such as homicide and warfare (for example, in the USA as of 2006, an adult non-elderly male is 3 to 6 times more likely to become a victim of a homicide and 2.5 to 3.5 times more likely to die in an accident than a female of the same age),[8] resulting in higher life expectancy of females. Consequently, the sex ratio tends to reduce as age increases, and among the elderly there is usually an excess of females.



As societies advanced from agrarianism, through industrialization. to the post-industrial service-oriented age, roles and opportunities for women multiplied -- albeit with limited opportunities, as admitted in the original post. That, in turn, led to, "niche" markets, which sometimes expanded substantially -- the "invisible hand" of capitalism and entrepreneurship at work. Or is the expansion of female-oriented literature and broadcasting, to cite one example, just a figment of my imagination?

Oh - multiple opportunities but limited - what are you trying to say?

Sorry, but I'll have to tell a personal story here; In my late thirties, I was taking additional college credit, while struggling with a difficult dating scene in which I met too many discarded first wives looking for a replacement meal ticket at a station in life I couldn't ever hope to match. With the help of some Jesuit friends, I was introduced to a struggling immigrant single Mom. We did a great deal for each other, are still the best of friends, but her dreams revolved around a bigger family -- something that's the kiss of death for a man already operating under (and resisting) the regimentation and structure of "Korporate" demands which, BTW, are bound to intensify in a gutted, over-sensitized, post-industrial economy -- with an ever-expanding supply of "fresh meat".

"White male paranoia" is vastly overblown, but there is, regrettably, a modest-but-real underpinning of cold, hard fact which too many of the eternal optimists simply seek to dismiss.
Too bad your anecdote is just that and does nothing to support your argument - try harder.
 
Old 09-22-2016, 05:52 PM
 
Location: Nescopeck, Penna.
11,370 posts, read 6,790,399 times
Reputation: 14412
Quote:
Originally Posted by craigiri View Post
So are you saying that you are driven by selfishness in terms of having to do the least possible as the years go by?
No. I was driven by an enlightened self-interest which provided the greatest satisfaction when I could identify what I was expected to do -- and had the figures to prove I was doing it well, just as with "hard stats" in the world of sport. I sought to do the most possible. but with the minimum amount of time in the gunsights of some corporate mercenary, or telling "sweet lies" to those who can't see the bigger picture (Yes, I know they're customers, but the expansion and sensitization of the "new" workplace ought to make it easier to find someone else for that role.)

But most managers will tell you that with the exception of sales (which revolves around self-effacement, and too often, benign deceit) they're very wary of direct incentives, since the employee will concentrate on the key indicators, to the exclusion of anything else. The soft, de-industrialized work environment is a breeding ground for the ethos of "greater common good", which sets off the struggle for power, and which is seldom resolved.

And too often "advancement" turns into a ticket to a place where the ulcers grow.

Last edited by Jeo123; 09-23-2016 at 02:20 PM.. Reason: Tag fix
 
Old 09-22-2016, 07:09 PM
 
997 posts, read 512,388 times
Reputation: 2278
I think the point was that working women have created the breakdown of our society.

I think most of us went to work because we had to, not because we wanted to. My mother told me not to depend on a man. She said to depend on myself. It's a good thing I did because my husband didn't want to work. He wouldn't do it.

He was raised in a 2 parent household and was well educated but he couldn't or wouldn't conform. He was a problem but I did work and I needed to do that whether I was married or not. We had a 2 parent household but the dad stayed at home and the mom went to work. It would have been better if he worked too, but there was an advantage to having him at home. He wasn't a good housewife but he was there for the kids.

Things have changed and housing is so expensive that usually both parents have to work. If there is going to be a stay at home parent it should be the one who is best suited for that role. Some men are not very good at going to work everyday but they are good at changing diapers.

Some of these young men who feel directionless are maybe homemakers at heart. Maybe the young women who are driven and ambitious should be the breadwinners.

If we accepted some of the new gender roles, then maybe things would go a little smoother.

That does not fix the problem because it is not fixable, but it is part of adapting to the way the world is. Not to the way it was yesterday.
 
Old 09-22-2016, 08:07 PM
 
Location: Eugene, Oregon
7,098 posts, read 2,213,337 times
Reputation: 9643
Quote:
Originally Posted by Veronicka View Post
I think the point was that working women have created the breakdown of our society.

I think most of us went to work because we had to, not because we wanted to. My mother told me not to depend on a man. She said to depend on myself. It's a good thing I did because my husband didn't want to work. He wouldn't do it.

He was raised in a 2 parent household and was well educated but he couldn't or wouldn't conform. He was a problem but I did work and I needed to do that whether I was married or not. We had a 2 parent household but the dad stayed at home and the mom went to work. It would have been better if he worked too, but there was an advantage to having him at home. He wasn't a good housewife but he was there for the kids.

Things have changed and housing is so expensive that usually both parents have to work. If there is going to be a stay at home parent it should be the one who is best suited for that role. Some men are not very good at going to work everyday but they are good at changing diapers.

Some of these young men who feel directionless are maybe homemakers at heart. Maybe the young women who are driven and ambitious should be the breadwinners.

If we accepted some of the new gender roles, then maybe things would go a little smoother.

That does not fix the problem because it is not fixable, but it is part of adapting to the way the world is. Not to the way it was yesterday.
I can imagine that the birth-rate will drop sharply in the U.S.
 
Old 09-22-2016, 09:23 PM
 
8,524 posts, read 2,392,842 times
Reputation: 8128
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2nd trick op View Post

But most managers will tell you that with the exception of sales (which revolves around self-effacement, and too often, benign deceit) they're very wary of direct incentives, since the employee will concentrate on the key indicators, to the exclusion of anything else. The soft, de-industrialized work environment is a breeding ground for the ethos of "greater common good", which sets off the struggle for power, and which is seldom resolved.

And too often "advancement" turns into a ticket to a place where the ulcers grow.
Well, the story of the corporate rat race is now many many decades old. It has little to do with the topic, IMHO.

Except that many have been emasculated by their own kowtowing to the corporate ladders and bosses of the world. No one to blame but themselves in those matters.

Greater Common Good? That's what we Buddhists (in thought) call "right livelihood" - doing well by doing good. If they teach that these days it would make me a happy man.

I was able to prosper for 40 years of work without screwing anyone - with providing goods, services and information that was of value to people. No down side, no bodies left on the side of the road.

Greater common good. Sorta sounds like the Constitution - General Welfare and Happiness. I like that.
 
Old 09-22-2016, 09:25 PM
 
8,524 posts, read 2,392,842 times
Reputation: 8128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve McDonald View Post
I can imagine that the birth-rate will drop sharply in the U.S.
And should we complain.

Would you prefer more traffic, more developed land, more energy use and less space?
 
Old 09-22-2016, 10:07 PM
 
Location: State of Transition
72,676 posts, read 64,172,365 times
Reputation: 68458
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2nd trick op View Post
I have to stand corrected, but only in part; here's a link to Wikipedia:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_sex_ratio

Males do outnumber females at birth. but the circumstances by which the population is reduced (loss of women to childbirth and poverty, men to primitive industry and war) have changed to favor women in the advanced societies over the past century. Only the Middle East and a few other parts of the Third World retain a surplus of men.

But the point remains; Both greater options for single women, and the deindustrialization of society increase the pressures faced by the "traditional" male. Demands for physical strength and stamina have given way to demands for an ability to handle stress, and both agrarian and heavy-industrial settings (not to mention the lessons given in both contact sports and the military) conditioned that male to react both quickly and physically; now we're conditioned to "suck it up" and the resentments build along with the blood pressure.

Business Administration curricula at many schools, my own alma mater among them, now include mandatory courses in organizational behavior, and I can attest from personal exposure that the man or woman who seeks to distance him/herself from cliques and politicking and to advance on empirical merit alone, is usually not encouraged. The large office full of "interchangeable parts" resembles nothing so much as a classroom -- and a junior high classroom at that.

I doubt that much can be done to alleviate this on an individual basis; pride and a sense of personal integrity are just too strong. Paul Newman's "Cool Hand Luke" persona wouldn't stand any better a chance than any of the clowns portrayed by the Hollywood of today.
This sounds like you're changing the topic. Could you sum up clearly what your topic is, please?
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