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And #35, well that just seems to be exactly what this guide is meant to be, doesn't it?
No, it doesn't. The guide was meant to open eyes to the subtle ways in which careless words can hurt other people. Presumably, it is still okay to stand against the deliberate and needless hurting of other people.
And what if I said .. 'I don't think of you as ... horrible, terrible, awful, rotten' etc. when just echoing what someone else may have said and trying to make someone understand that they are NOT what they have been called?
I don't think "horrible, terrible, awful, rotten" are the adjectives that naturally follow this phrase and hence its inclusion... it's usually something to do with a more personal characteristic: "disabled", "black", etc.
I assumed it was common sense for the most part to avoid these phrases, since many of them can come off as dismissive or condescending, but apparently someone else doesn't think so since they consolidated them all together in this neat list.
The overall theme here seems to be that often it's sufficient to just listen to the other person instead of needing to argue or rebut their experiences.
I don't think "horrible, terrible, awful, rotten" are the adjectives that naturally follow this phrase and hence its inclusion... it's usually something to do with a more personal characteristic: "disabled", "black", etc.
I assumed it was common sense for the most part to avoid these phrases, since many of them can come off as dismissive or condescending, but apparently someone else doesn't think so since they consolidated them all together in this neat list.
The overall theme here seems to be that often it's sufficient to just listen to the other person instead of needing to argue or rebut their experiences.
I see your point but I think that despite what it may seem like when one reads online forums, etc. MOST people still these days don't think or speak the same way that college kids do. I don't think we take offense at things the same way the junior crowd seems to. It would never even occur to me that what you say is what logically follows - and I am sure I am not alone.
My common sense would not have me totally avoiding many of those phrases for any reason (but a few of them it would never even occur to me to use because they are obviously inflammatory) .. but that could just be because I would never use them to denigrate anyone (and I would never follow them with what you say are the problem words). Now .. if someone decides to 'take offense' (where none was meant because I guess I am too stupid not to know that what used to be common phrases and were definitely NOT meant to hurt, even innocently, are now deemed something we cannot use any more - gotta love that freedom of speech thing, eh?) there is not much I can do about it. What this list says to me is that I now have to watch EVERY word I say just because someone 'might' decide they could somehow misinterpret or deliberately take offense?
Context and tone of voice have a lot to do with everything too - those are really hard to convey in a document .. because as I hope I illustrated I can use these phrases in all sorts of different ways that should NOT be taken the wrong way by anyone - and if they are .. that is on them, not me I would say .. though of course I will be sorry they totally didn't take it as intended.
I don't go up to people to offend them ...in the real world, I only talk to long time friends, pretty well no one else .. so perhaps this is just not an issue for me. I don't barge in to other's conversations or even listen unless asked to or speak unless asked for an opinion, etc. I guess maybe the world of the young is very different than mine is or I hope will ever be - but it does concern me that kids have not yet learned how to be decent without having to have a list to consult all the time.
I see your point but I think that despite what it may seem like when one reads online forums, etc. MOST people still these days don't think or speak the same way that college kids do. I don't think we take offense at things the same way the junior crowd seems to. It would never even occur to me that what you say is what logically follows - and I am sure I am not alone.
We must run in different crowds. I have friends among the "marginalized" groups this list is referencing who hear some of these things fairly frequently, and these are not college kids, they're 30 and up. Mostly up. It gets exhausting for them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aery11
My common sense would not have me totally avoiding many of those phrases for any reason (but a few of them it would never even occur to me to use because they are obviously inflammatory) .. but that could just be because I would never use them to denigrate anyone (and I would never follow them with what you say are the problem words). Now .. if someone decides to 'take offense' (where none was meant because I guess I am too stupid not to know that what used to be common phrases and were definitely NOT meant to hurt, even innocently, are now deemed something we cannot use any more - gotta love that freedom of speech thing, eh?) there is not much I can do about it. What this list says to me is that I now have to watch EVERY word I say just because someone 'might' decide they could somehow misinterpret or deliberately take offense?
Interesting, I'd have to work pretty hard to find a context in which some of these phrases would be OK and would pop up naturally in a conversation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aery11
Context and tone of voice have a lot to do with everything too - those are really hard to convey in a document .. because as I hope I illustrated I can use these phrases in all sorts of different ways that should NOT be taken the wrong way by anyone - and if they are .. that is on them, not me I would say .. though of course I will be sorry they totally didn't take it as intended.
I don't go up to people to offend them ...in the real world, I only talk to long time friends, pretty well no one else .. so perhaps this is just not an issue for me. I don't barge in to other's conversations or even listen unless asked to or speak unless asked for an opinion, etc. I guess maybe the world of the young is very different than mine is or I hope will ever be - but it does concern me that kids have not yet learned how to be decent without having to have a list to consult all the time.
Meh, it's not just kids who haven't learned to be decent, many adults are guilty of that too (in spite of the fervent insistence otherwise that everyone was so respectful "back then") and now they're annoyed that some of the standards of "decent" have changed.
I don't know how and when it happened, but it seems this country is now inhabited by a majority of people with a perpetual chip on their shoulder, always on the lookout for a comment that will offend, despite its intention. It's going to get to the point where we have a population with bottled up emotions, because they aren't allowed to speak freely.
Toughen up, let things slide and live and let live. There will be lots of opportunities in this life to get your feelings hurt, and you aren't going to make that fact go away just because someone was issued a list of what not to say.
It's not a John Wayne world anymore, Pilgrim. It is not so much a speaker's intention that is likely to draw attention today, but rather any sort of even careless neglect in considering the feelings of listeners. Even incidental listeners. English is a rich and diverse language. It should simply be second nature to avoid the use of words that are well known to cause pain, discomfort, or anxiety among others. Free speech after all is not some all-conquering, unbounded right. Like so many others, the right itself presupposes a responsible use of it.
It's going to get to the point where we have a population with bottled up emotions, because they aren't allowed to speak freely.
If people are "bottling it up", that's on them.
This is education. It's obvious just from some of the responses here that the education is really quite necessary.
It's not about stifling speech. It's about educating people that really, what they say might very well not be the right thing under the circumstances. That, even though it may be well-meaning, telling someone who has had different experiences due to their race, ethnicity, country of origin, sexuality, etc., that you "know how they feel" is, in fact, dismissive of their experiences.
Quote:
Originally Posted by aquietpath
Toughen up, let things slide and live and let live.
The exact same thing could be said right back to you.
Wow now they the supporters of political correctness are trying to use political correctness against those who are tired of this PC culture that has been created within the last eight years. Maybe it's me but I don't get why many want to limit others freedom of speech? Like if someone wants to call me a name I wouldn't care and would go out of my way to support their freedom of speech but nowadays it's just not the same where many frequently try to censor other opinions they disagree with.
I don't see anything wrong with common courtesy. Some folks weren't taught polite manners at home, so now they have a guideline, no big deal.
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