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Old 10-14-2016, 09:45 PM
 
6,179 posts, read 3,278,285 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brownbagg View Post
text books are always written on the winner side of history you will never hear of the loser side. Today text books are claiming that obama was the greatest president ever.
I doubt textbooks are saying that Obama "was the greatest president ever." Do you have a citation for that?

If the history is old enough, textbooks do indeed recite the facts and not just the winner's version. Textbooks cover the Roman Empire, for example, and do not pretend that everything the Empire did was wonderful or just. Even though the Empire won its wars most often. Textbooks do not pretend that the U.K.'s colonialism in India was right; it just was. India's position is presented, as well.

Textbooks cover facts. They're not editorials. It's often people who want an editorial or biased view presented who complain about the factual basis of textbooks.

Some things, of course, are presented in a way that suggests they were good things. There are universal ideas of good and bad, like slavery, equal rights, discrimination, etc.
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Old 10-14-2016, 11:30 PM
 
Location: Colorado Springs
19,041 posts, read 8,945,287 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2nd trick op View Post
Oh, please!! That sort of legend was handed down by the parents at home, and it was debunked, at least in part, in the elementary grades. The history lessons I recall from the third through the sixth grades, touched on issues like the settling of the west, but they couldn't be analyzed and criticized in detail because a nine-year-old mind isn't ready for that. And it shouldn't be overlooked that the Fifties and Sixties saw a huge expansion in the role of television and other electronic media.

EXAMPLE: The history book I recall from one year, somewhere between the fourth and sixth grade was entitled My Pennsylvania. It dwelt on a wide variety of subjects, often in an anecdotal format -- everything from the bitter winter at Valley Forge to Pennsylvania artists as diverse as Stephen Foster and Marian Anderson. But it wasted a lot of print lionizing Thaddeus Stevens, the notorious architect of Reconstruction -- because Stevens was also an early, and strong advocate of public education. Absolutely no mention of Stevens skullduggery, which included attempts to undercut the Constitution -- just as in the 1930s and the present day -- was mentioned, nor was it brought up in my Junior High history studies.



Except that demographic trends, such as the near-complete adaption of many tenets of socialism and collectivism by an increasingly-feminized Educational Establishment, place a much heavier burden upon those advocating traditional and/or libertarian (small 'l' emphasized, please) values. To the NEA and its minions, Political Correctness is often an absolutist doctrine -- as demonstrated by many of the ideologues who seek to dominate academia.



FWIW, I was a member of a labor union (United Food and Commercial Workers / AFL-CIO) for eighteen years, participated in one six-week strike, and considered the dues well spent -- so long as the money went for formulation and enforcement of work rules within my shop. That purpose, however, seemed to take more and more of a back seat to politics as the years passed.

Unions serve a purpose, but they are most successful in the capital-intensive industries such as public utilities, or essentials like chemicals and oil -- some of which have been gutted by de-industrialization. In lower-paying industries like food and beverages, local shops have been weakened by competition from nationally-known brands. On the lower rungs of the industrial ladder, unionists tend to sink to class warfare, but they still wield a lot of power when they hold a (usually state-mandated) monopoly in fields like education and public safety, and they are well aware of this disparity, though a lot of the rank-and-file are not.
You utilize the GOP talking points quite effectively, despite their degree of accuracy.
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Old 10-14-2016, 11:31 PM
 
Location: Colorado Springs
19,041 posts, read 8,945,287 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pub-911 View Post
Compare and contrast to old movies of little Chinese children all standing and waving their copies of Chairman Mao's "Little Red Book" on demand.
LOL. I remember thinking how much Chairman Mao's Chinese children looked somewhat like our scouts.
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Old 10-14-2016, 11:33 PM
 
Location: Colorado Springs
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Originally Posted by Pub-911 View Post
It's as plain in this thread as elsewhere that some have never crossed over the bounds of some sappy Norman Rockwell painting.
Very true. Rockwell has his place, but he was often more about fantasy than representative of American life.
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Old 10-14-2016, 11:37 PM
 
Location: Colorado Springs
19,041 posts, read 8,945,287 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2nd trick op View Post
I suspect that the diversity in the methods in which civics/citizenship and history are taught springs from the fact that laws vary between states, and from there among the individual school districts.

And while I fully agree with a requirement for civic education. please don't try to convince me that mandated standardization, imposed by a Federal bureaucracy, is the remedy.

The course I took in the ninth grade seldom diverged into history, and the workings of Constitutional law had been dealt with over the previous two years: our material at the time focused upon the workings of state, county and municipal government, with an occasional "side trip" into things like filing an income tax return (they were still fairly simple in 1963-4), or that still-remembered discussion the morning after President Kennedy's burial.

My teacher would probably have made a pretty good lawyer; he explained, for purpose of example alone, that while the state Constitution forbade legislation mentioning a specific city or county by name, the legislature got around this by grouping counties and municipalities by size -- and most of the more-populated classifications had but one member. Heady stuff for a ninth-grader, but there were a few of us who got, and enjoyed the point. And at that time, our county was enduring a seemingly-endless series of appeals of a local capital-murder case, so a fair amount of attention was devoted to that.

But the point a seek to re-emphasize is that the instruction I got, admittedly helped by a personal enthusiasm for statecraft, was probably better than if an Approved-as-Politically-Correct version had been spoon-fed by an instructor with a personal, or union-driven agenda.
You see, all you keep doing is presenting typical Republican talking points.
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Old 10-14-2016, 11:39 PM
 
Location: Colorado Springs
19,041 posts, read 8,945,287 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bpollen View Post
The curricula and textbooks in schools are decided upon by the local governmental entities, with the fed requiring some things. Teachers' unions have no say-so in that.

If you don't like the current curriculum in a school, blame the school board and whatever other governmental people are picking the textbooks and crafting the various curricula.

The teachers' unions and teachers also don't decide how many kids are in each class. I believe there are a lot more kids in classes, now, than in your and my day.

Teachers are instructors. Nothing more, nothing less. They're not great philosophers, criminal experts, psychologists, medical doctors, or social workers. The public seems to expect them to teach Johnny how to be a man, Jane how to groom herself properly, Patsy how to get along with others better, etc. But those things are the jobs of parents.

Parents cannot absolve themselves of all responsibility in teaching their children, just because the children go to school.
And it's interesting to me how many Republican extol the virtues of local government, and then seem to uniformly condemn local school boards.
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Old 10-15-2016, 02:28 AM
 
Location: State of Transition
73,006 posts, read 64,529,432 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
Very true. Rockwell has his place, but he was often more about fantasy than representative of American life.
A professor I used to work with, who was from Croatia, used to refer to Rockwell's art as the American equivalent of Soviet Realism. Very sanitized, squeaky-clean, cliché, ideal for propaganda purposes.
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Old 10-15-2016, 04:32 AM
 
Location: Florida
4,872 posts, read 2,240,219 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
A professor I used to work with, who was from Croatia, used to refer to Rockwell's art as the American equivalent of Soviet Realism. Very sanitized, squeaky-clean, cliché, ideal for propaganda purposes.
That maybe true but then Rockwell painted this as well :


Link : http://www.pophistorydig.com/wp-cont...n-girl-340.jpg

There was nothing "squeaky-clean" about this painting exposing the real horror of racism in our nation at the time knowing that this innocent black child had to be accompanied by a Military force just to get a education in our so called Democracy.
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Old 10-15-2016, 06:42 AM
 
1,040 posts, read 545,690 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2nd trick op View Post
The history lessons I recall from the third through the sixth grades, touched on issues like the settling of the west, but they couldn't be analyzed and criticized in detail because a nine-year-old mind isn't ready for that.
It's not a matter of analyzing and criticizing. It's a matter of telling simple, whole, truths. Nine year olds easily digest simple, whole, truths if they're presented at a 9 year old's level. Which is certainly different today from what it was 50 years ago. Way more discerning for one thing. Plus, leading nations learn, grow, adjust, and move forward, just like most individuals do. Not sure how that can be stopped.
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Old 10-15-2016, 07:07 AM
 
15,797 posts, read 13,230,342 times
Reputation: 19693
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikMal View Post
The point I don't get is: Why is the educational system downplaying and bad mouthing American history and civics? Why and when did it become taboo to have pride in your country and what is the ultimate goal?
They aren't downplaying American history, they are just including more of it. There are lots of terrible thing in American history, and what truly makes us great is as a nation we strive to improve. Part of that is knowing the mistakes made, the paradigms that allowed them, and making sure they don't happen again.
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