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Old 11-10-2016, 04:31 PM
 
5,046 posts, read 599,444 times
Reputation: 13104

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Okay, they lost the election and the young have taken to the streets.

My opinion is that they lost mostly because they:

1. Focused most of their efforts on minorities (and especially their liberality regarding illegal immigrants ticked a lot of people off) and virtually ignored the wants and needs of the middle class.

2. Had alienated MOST American in one way or another over the past eight years

3. The perception that Obama had done absolutely nothing to improve the lives of most Americans

4. Relations between blacks and whites have generally worsened over the past eight years

5. Nominated Hillary who was outspoken about wanting to continue Obama's policies and attitudes

So, three questions --

First, do you agree or disagree with the above?

Second, what do you think Liberals should do if they want to win in 2020?

Third, what do you think they will do over the next four years? (Meaning do you think they will continue to push for changes not wanted by "Middle America"?)

Last edited by katharsis; 11-10-2016 at 04:48 PM..

 
Old 11-10-2016, 08:46 PM
 
161 posts, read 112,045 times
Reputation: 398
Not sure what they should do in 2020 but agree with what you said overall. The left seems so preoccupied with racism and labels. When I look at the web at night I think there is a race war going on out there but then when I go to work or a store that is not the reality I see at all. The last eight years felt like things were being shoved down my throat - from increasingly stringent political correctness (such as the campus "triggers" and "safe spaces" to the Affordable Care Act). It seemed to be a very totalitarian approach with a "our way of the highway" attitude. Negotiation and compromise went out the window and name calling and denigration seemed to be the preferred strategy. If you ask me, the Obamacare increases that were announced just before the election put the final nail in the progressive coffin. Real people were paying massive increases in real money for essentially catastrophic coverage. Lives and livelihoods were being destroyed and the people spoke. The young protesters do not feel the sting of living costs. They are blissfully ignorant today but this will come back on them over the next few years.
 
Old 11-10-2016, 09:06 PM
 
Location: Colorado Springs
18,888 posts, read 8,867,123 times
Reputation: 18290
I take a different view of the loss. I think since she lost to Obama back in 2008, it was generally assumed Hillary would be the candidate in 2016. That assumption just sucked all the air out of the room, so to speak. Everyone else assumed it was a waste of time to run. Therefore, a highly flawed candidate got the nomination.
 
Old 11-10-2016, 09:25 PM
 
5,273 posts, read 11,907,338 times
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I think the OP assessment is pretty good, overall.

However, what the liberals can do and will do are in some ways two different things. Like Ron White states, "I had the right to remain silent, but not the ability".

What they cannot change is that elite liberalism breeds contempt for people and is a pure form of hate. Everyone must believe as they do and think as they do or they are worthless worms who are not worthy of living.

What they can do is start to learn who the common person really is. That they struggle to make ends meet and by increasing their taxes to where they cannot survive does not solve their problems. By inviting terrorism via appeasement and teaching hatred of others and an inability to even consider ideas aside from their own can actually be a good thing.

They have lost touch with the common man and woman. They want to be so damn superior that they just cannot connect.

This has been a wake-up call. I wonder if they will bother to pick up the phone. I sort of doubt it.
 
Old 11-10-2016, 09:48 PM
 
Location: Haiku
3,097 posts, read 2,171,927 times
Reputation: 4755
Quote:
Originally Posted by whocares811 View Post
Okay, they lost the election and the young have taken to the streets.

My opinion is that they lost mostly because they:

1. Focused most of their efforts on minorities (and especially their liberality regarding illegal immigrants ticked a lot of people off) and virtually ignored the wants and needs of the middle class.

2. Had alienated MOST American in one way or another over the past eight years

3. The perception that Obama had done absolutely nothing to improve the lives of most Americans

4. Relations between blacks and whites have generally worsened over the past eight years

5. Nominated Hillary who was outspoken about wanting to continue Obama's policies and attitudes

So, three questions --

First, do you agree or disagree with the above?
No, I don't agree.
This election was lost for one simple reason - the pendulum swings back and forth, conservative tilt to liberal tilt. We have had 8 years of liberal, so now the times has come for a few years of conservative. It has nothing to do with which is right, and everything to do with which party everyone is sick of. Don't read too much into it. People like change from whatever the status quo is.

Quote:
Second, what do you think Liberals should do if they want to win in 2020?
Liberals have little control over 2020. They need to field a reasonable candidate, for sure, but whether that candidate will unseat Trump is almost entirely dependent upon what Trump does, and what the economic situation is in 2019. If Trump stinks as POTUS, he will be vulnerable. If the economy tanks or some other disaster occurs, Trump will be vulnerable. Otherwise he will probably get re-elected no matter what the Dems do in the next 4 years. That's just how it has mostly played out.

Quote:
Third, what do you think they will do over the next four years? (Meaning do you think they will continue to push for changes not wanted by "Middle America"?)
The liberals will engage in some sole-searching and come up with a plan. But it doesn't really matter what the plan is despite all the polls and other research. See the above comments on the pendulum to see why. BTW, this has nothing to do with liberal vs. conservative - it is not the party that matters, it is which way the pendulum is swinging. If you don't believe me, look at how close this, and most other elections, are. It is mostly a very small difference that matters. We are a country evenly divided.
 
Old 11-10-2016, 10:18 PM
 
Location: too far from the sea
17,988 posts, read 17,140,226 times
Reputation: 30125

1. Focused most of their efforts on minorities (and especially their liberality regarding illegal immigrants ticked a lot of people off) and virtually ignored the wants and needs of the middle class.

2. Had alienated MOST American in one way or another over the past eight years

3. The perception that Obama had done absolutely nothing to improve the lives of most Americans

4. Relations between blacks and whites have generally worsened over the past eight years

5. Nominated Hillary who was outspoken about wanting to continue Obama's policies and attitudes


As a liberal (not an extreme liberal--there are many kinds of liberals just as there are many kinds of conservatives) I tend to agree with the part about the illegals. Living in a liberal state where most are more liberal than I am, I have yet to meet anyone who thinks people who broke the law to get into this country have a right to be here.

Breaking the law and then demanding rights is offensive to almost everyone. I don't have an answer. I can feel a little bit sorry for them but American citizens should come first. Immigrants who came here the legal way find it offensive too.

Somebody has to fix the immigration laws that make it almost impossible to immigrate. Then the people who are decent could apply and probably get in legally. Right now it's almost impossible and most people don't realize that.

Obama tried to do a lot of things and the perception that he didn't really annoys me. As soon as he was elected the Republicans banded together and pledged to block everything he did. So if nothing got done, blame them. They wanted to make it look like it was him but it wasn't.

Relations between blacks and whites may have deteriorated but why? Maybe there was latent racism in this country all along and when we got a black President that ugly racism surfaced. Whose fault is that? The fault of the racists, that's who.

Hillary was not an exciting candidate with much to offer. Bernie was honest but too left wing for most liberals and he couldn't have won.

I think those of us middle of the road people--liberals and conservatives who are not extremists--need to come together and form a new party. We still want to keep this country great, we want to help people, and to have jobs and quality of life. We all want to eliminate the huge gap between rich and poor. So if the people in the middle could get together and start something, there might be hope. Make the far left wing crazies and the far right wing crazies go away. Make them stop sucking people into their cultist beliefs.

End the hate, come together, and start a new party.
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Old 11-10-2016, 11:19 PM
 
Location: Oregon, formerly Texas
5,242 posts, read 3,395,295 times
Reputation: 8783
People can protest Winnie the Pooh if they want if it's peaceful. That is their 1st amendment right. Who cares...? they are exercising their rights.

I think they are protesting because the loss was unexpected. The polls were all showing a comfortable Hillary win, along the lines of how Obama won. These people could not imagine a foolhardy & provocative candidate Trump actually winning.

Not only did Hillary not win, she lost spectacularly in states that Democrats have held for a generation. YET Hillary won the popular vote. There's a tinge of unfairness there, a sense that the rules of the game are stacked against them, and they're angry. Plus Trump is just offensive. He said a lot of jerk things. He's the kind of guy that increases tension in any room he enters. A guy like that is going to get people riled up.

Democrats have 192 house seats and 48 senate seats. That's only slightly worse than their position after the 2004 loss, when they had 202 house seats and 48 senate seats. They've been worse off. As an added bonus, they now can move on to life after The Clintons. Their brand was destroyed. Hillary and Bill will retire from politics and work on the foundation.

Hard to say who the party's leading spokesperson will be. Not Pelosi or Schumer... both coastal elites. Not Bernie Sanders - he is not even a Democrat. Tim Kaine will put people to sleep. He at least carried Virginia and can't be blamed for the loss, but wow he is boring. Probably Elizabeth Warren for the time being, while they search for someone younger and who can connect.
Quote:
They have lost touch with the common man and woman. They want to be so damn superior that they just cannot connect.

This has been a wake-up call. I wonder if they will bother to pick up the phone
.

I agree... they misread the electorate BADLY even though the Bernie Sanders phenomenon was right in their faces. They need to grok that.

Quote:
Focused most of their efforts on minorities (and especially their liberality regarding illegal immigrants ticked a lot of people off) and virtually ignored the wants and needs of the middle class.
Disagree. They've been talking about these issues, just not doing much because of obstruction. Read the platform.

Quote:
Had alienated MOST American in one way or another over the past eight years
Disagree. President Obama job approval went well back into the 50s this year. Michelle Obama highly popular.

Quote:
The perception that Obama had done absolutely nothing to improve the lives of most Americans
See above.

Quote:
Relations between blacks and whites have generally worsened over the past eight years
Sort of. There is definitely a lack of understanding between the two.

Quote:
Nominated Hillary who was outspoken about wanting to continue Obama's policies and attitudes
Again, Obama's approval improved and the economy has been getting better. Obama would have won a 3rd term if it was possible. Hillary had a ton of baggage... she was a scandal magnet.

Last edited by redguard57; 11-11-2016 at 12:02 AM..
 
Old 11-10-2016, 11:30 PM
 
Location: Colorado Springs
18,888 posts, read 8,867,123 times
Reputation: 18290
Quote:
Originally Posted by redguard57 View Post
...
Hard to say who the party's leading spokesperson will be. Not Pelosi or Schumer... both coastal elites. Not Bernie Sanders - he is not even a Democrat. Tim Kaine will put people to sleep. Probably Elizabeth Warren for the time being, while they search for someone younger.
A lot of people think that, at least for now, Obama is that spokesperson.
 
Old 11-11-2016, 12:04 AM
 
Location: Oregon, formerly Texas
5,242 posts, read 3,395,295 times
Reputation: 8783
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
A lot of people think that, at least for now, Obama is that spokesperson.
I have to admit.... I was pretty annoyed and disgusted with Obama for a while. But compared to most of the politicians this cylce, he looks like freaking George Washington and I've come to appreciate him. He's handling the transition with a lot of class.

George W. Bush is looking better in retrospect too.
 
Old 11-11-2016, 01:05 AM
 
11,493 posts, read 5,551,757 times
Reputation: 5949
It was really just that there wasn't much enthusiasm behind Hillary, and she was heavily demonized by the right wing to the extent it cost her potential undecided/moderate votes.

The Democrats need to put up someone next election who is very likable, and has a clean record so the right wing can't demonize him/her the way they did with Hillary.

And like someone else said, the pendulum swings back and forth.
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