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Sex work should be banned because those who employ sex workers are using their employees' bodies sexually to turn a profit. It is a violation of human dignity, and therefore rights. and it does not matter that some
of them claim it is their choice. it demeans all women if one woman is prostituted.
Fail. Personal view being extended to the entire population.
The definition of dignity:
"An individual or group's sense of self-respect and self-worth, physical and psychological integrity and empowerment"
You don't get to define it for the entire population. We shouldn't legislate any one definition of dignity or morality. There was a time that it was considered immoral for interracial relationships.... some people still believe that... It took a Supreme court decision in 1967 to legalize interracial relationships. Ultimately, it was ruled that it was a human right to choose who you marry regardless of race.
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And it is NOTHING like any other kind of work you keep mentioning unless those workers allow anybody to use their bodies sexually by renting it out for a few minutes. humanity is not a commodity.
Again, personal view. What is the difference between this and labor.. even hard labor.. or one's body as a body guard? It is only your personal view that elevates sexuality above just the physical act. For many of us, it is just a physical act (albeit one that requires respect). Why is it illegal to "rent out" sex as a personal choice and yet legal to make the same personal choice void of monetary gain?
It is just like other kinds of work. Saying the opposite with no justification or rationalization doesn't carry much weight.
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nobody gives away sex. they engage in sex with someone they have a relationship with, even if it is casual sex. if they do it for money it is ilegal. there are lots of things that are given away - love, compassion, heroism. you cannot commodity them
When I said "gives away sex" it was implying monetary reasons. But let's go with this line....
Assuming beyond the monetary, You are right.. sex is truly never given away. They CHOOSE to engage in sex with someone in exchange for a relationship... even in casual sex. By that logic, yes... you are right. It is their human right to of choice what to exchange for their sexuality.
However, you make an exception when it comes to exchange of money. Is it not their human right to make that choice as per your stance? As I said earlier, you cannot cherry pick human rights at your choosing. It is either their human right.. or not. which is it?
Again, personal view that is implied here. That sex is too valuable to make into a commodity. That is your personal choice (and right) but that shouldn't be applied to the general population who many don't share you same views.
As I said, most of the foundation of your stance is based on personal views and convictions. What you fail to realize is that we don't all share those same personal views and convictions. What is an absolute here is that everyone has dominion over their body and what they choose to and not choose to do with it. That was demonstrated with the SC ruling of Roe vs Wade and other similar rulings. That right should have no exceptions.. certainly not exceptions based on your personal views.
prostitution is not a professin and it doesn't become one just by calling that. human trafficking is how sex workers are procured in and from many parts of the world. licencing it is not going to stop that nor the violence and abuse that exists in this world. there is no fallacy in this.
Just because you claim it isn't a profession doesn't mean it is not. You still haven't explained why the other job types listed under human trafficking (see the link I posted earlier) isn't also banned. Why single sex work out? If the existence of human trafficking is the criteria by which a job type can be banned, then that should also include other job types I have linked.
I have a circle of friends that make a living as a sex worker.. hence a job. Same with the Nevada brothels.
My friends have also been victims of violence from criminals and police leverage the fact that they cannot claim legal protections without risking prosecution themselves. I guess their victimization doesn't count?
Please stop acting like human trafficking is your primary concern. If it were, you would take the discussion over human trafficking in the direction of the general sense of forced labor (I have linked other labor types). Instead you focus only sex work... and only sex work... that shows your personal bias clear as day.
if diamond cannot be harvested without child labor and bloody working conditions, yes it should be banned.
But we can still buy diamonds.
By that logic, we should be able to purchase sex just as long as it isn't derived from criminal activities such as human trafficking, child labor, coercion, forced, or working conditions.
I have already responded to all these points you keep making. one last time:
you may disagree with all this but i stand with most reasonable people who believe as I do. it is an affront to women everywhere to allow prostitution to be legal.
It is humorous that you are lumping yourself with reasonable people, let alone 'most reasonable people'. I'd say 'most reasonable people' think prostitution among consenting adults is reasonable.
As an adult/grown man if I choose to sell myself(much like porn)why should it be a crime?Prostitution is a choice,sex trafficking is another subject for people to act like these grown women aren't making decisions for themselves live in some pc world. The government needs to stop controlling people's bodies and focus on real crimes.
As long as there are people who make poor choices because they are incapacitated, minor, lack knowledge, lack options, and many other conditions, their choices cannot dictate community welfare. just because you want to prostitute yourself, or work in porn industry, does not mean those industries cannot be banned as social harm. all those you mention lead, inevitably, to human trafficking. so you cannot just set that aside and argue for choice, as if all those people abducted, beaten and abused have a choice. if they do not have a choice none of us who live in the same universe have a choice.
Just because you claim it isn't a profession doesn't mean it is not. You still haven't explained why the other job types listed under human trafficking (see the link I posted earlier) isn't also banned. Why single sex work out? If the existence of human trafficking is the criteria by which a job type can be banned, then that should also include other job types I have linked.
I have a circle of friends that make a living as a sex worker.. hence a job. Same with the Nevada brothels.
My friends have also been victims of violence from criminals and police leverage the fact that they cannot claim legal protections without risking prosecution themselves. I guess their victimization doesn't count?
Please stop acting like human trafficking is your primary concern. If it were, you would take the discussion over human trafficking in the direction of the general sense of forced labor (I have linked other labor types). Instead you focus only sex work... and only sex work... that shows your personal bias clear as day.
What is the qualification for a gig at prostitution as a profession? A sexual organ(s). that is it. that does not qualify as a profession the way it is defined and understood. "oldest profession" is a derogatory term hidden in an euphemism. don't take irony seriously.
Drug pushing is making a living. breaking a law does not make you a victim. if you have been brutalized what prevents you from bringing charges? you may be penalized for breaking the law but you can also get legal remedy for assault.
The other labor types do not have intercourse as their job description to get paid. that is the difference. i have answered your question for the lastest time.
Why are YOU not concerned about human trafficking related to prostitution?
By that logic, we should be able to purchase sex just as long as it isn't derived from criminal activities such as human trafficking, child labor, coercion, forced, or working conditions.
They are inseparable and always will be because of the nature of their use of human organs in that particular way. purchasing sex is called prostitution.
As long as there are people who make poor choices because they are incapacitated, minor, lack knowledge, lack options, and many other conditions, their choices cannot dictate community welfare. just because you want to prostitute yourself, or work in porn industry, does not mean those industries cannot be banned as social harm. all those you mention lead, inevitably, to human trafficking. so you cannot just set that aside and argue for choice, as if all those people abducted, beaten and abused have a choice. if they do not have a choice none of us who live in the same universe have a choice.
You cannot and should not legislate poor choices nor morality. It will lead to denial of rights to others as it depends on who defines what is or is not a poor choice or what is or not moral. Again you failed the test of "personal views" being applied to the general.
As I mentioned, it was a considered a "poor choice" for one to marry outside of their race. It was considered a social harm to have intermixing of races. It denied the rights of people who didn't share the same personal views of inter-racial relationships. As such, the SC moved to legalize inter-racial relationships in 1967. There are many instances of this but I believe you are ignoring them to suit your own views. You again ignore this rational
Lets also remind you of your example of blood diamonds. We can still purchase diamonds just as long they are not derived from criminal elements. We didn't ban diamond trade in this country. Similarly, we should still be able to trade sexual services just as long as they are not derived from criminal elements You again ignore this rational
We also have laws that protect a person's right over body and choice. Roe vs Wade being one. You again ignore this rational.
Your posts are consistent in that you pass personal views and opinions as rational and fact while ignoring everyone else refutes. That does not make a case in a debate... nor does repeating it make it any more of a valid statement.
They are inseparable and always will be because of the nature of their use of human organs in that particular way. purchasing sex is called prostitution.
Brain and arms are "human organs" (or consist of). They are used for a variety of job types. Many are legal.
Please elaborate on "particular way"... how does that differentiate from any other job type? How does that fit into the criteria of legal usage? Why is it legal to have sex with anyone without monetary gain?
The term "prostitution" does not imply legality in any manner. You can have legalized prostitution.
What is the qualification for a gig at prostitution as a profession? A sexual organ(s). that is it. that does not qualify as a profession the way it is defined and understood. "oldest profession" is a derogatory term hidden in an euphemism. don't take irony seriously.
This is just arguing semantics now. There are many jobs/professions that do not require qualifications. The lack of qualifications doesn't meet the bar of making a job type illegal
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Drug pushing is making a living. breaking a law does not make you a victim. if you have been brutalized what prevents you from bringing charges? you may be penalized for breaking the law but you can also get legal remedy for assault.
I have no problems with drug dealing. It is legal (ex. pharmacies). Yes. It is heavily regulated and those that are arrested for drugs are do so on the street without meeting the proper criteria.
Similarly, I have no problems with heavy regulation of prostitution. I am against street prostitution and pimping. I am for regulation especially around health standards (similar to tattoo, massage, hair, etc).
A person dealing drugs without the proper credentials should be prosecuted. Similarly, a prostitute dealing sexual services without proper credentials should also be prosecuted.
You still don't understand. It is pretty obvious that you are speculating. Here are a few real life situations.
* A prostitute who has been victimized (I personally know a few) cannot report to the authorities without risking prosecution (you agree with that).
* Prostitutes are typically substituting other income. An arrest record can risk that job.
* Many prostitutes are trying to climb the socio-economic ladder. Many are funding educations with their sex work. If arrested, it makes it even more difficult to climb that ladder and improve their lives. An arrest record effectively makes future job opportunities difficult.
* In NJ, it is punishable with a jail time. Jail time means absence from job and family.
* Arrests are public record. Even in areas of legalized prostitution, there is still a society stigma attached to it. Being arrested risks being shunned and shamed by society and family.
* Police officers are also known to use the risk of prostitution arrest to leverage prostitutes.
* An prostitution conviction can also result in the loss of child custody. Many of the friends on my circle are working girls because prostitution is a highly paid part time job that fits into a single mother's schedule with children.
The list goes on. The working girls in my circle have far more to loose than the criminals that victimize them. As such, they never report it. You are downplaying a very difficult situation. You simply cannot say to "pay penalty" to hopefully prosecute an assault.
My previous GF who is a working girl currently has enough funds to send both of her children to local colleges. I've known her for 20 years (we became friends after ending our relationship) She has effectively broken the cycle of poverty by providing resources and choices to her children that she was not privy to. She could not accomplish that working just a retail job alone.
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The other labor types do not have intercourse as their job description to get paid. that is the difference. i have answered your question for the lastest time.
Why are YOU not concerned about human trafficking related to prostitution?
Oh please. You can give a crap about human trafficking. You get off on using it as part of your weak stance. As I pointed out, human trafficking occurs on many forms of job types. You just choose to single out sex work just like the laws currently do. You show little concern for others who trafficked outside of the world of sex. Your concern is not human trafficking.. it is simply that others have a different view over sex.
So your concern isn't really about human trafficking.. You just admitted.... it is the intercourse that sets it apart. You are caught up on the intercourse/sex and how it relates in your personal views. Not everyone shares your personal views over intercourse. Personal views don't make rational refutes in a debate which is the entire bases for your stance.
What about intercourse justifies making sex work illegal? What makes intercourse a greater thing than any other bodily physical act?
Last edited by usayit; 12-31-2016 at 11:29 AM..
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