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Exactly the same things could be said about all religions and about new or different recipes for cooking foods, or about new fashions and trends in clothing, but they are valued by billions of people around the world. Your estimation of what kinds of education have value or are valueless doesn't hold water.
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Your bringing up things that have a value. People exchange money for religion, recipes, cooking foods, and fashion trends. You can find people all day long that have made money off the disciplines you brought up. Can you give any examples of those that have made money from womens studies other than those that teach?
Careers I could think of where a Women's Studies major would be useful:
Teaching (yeah, the circular thing, fine. But it's obvious.)
Writing. Writing anything from philosophy and self help, to biographies, to fiction, to non-fiction or sociology topics.
Going on to become a marriage, sex, or relationship therapist of some kind.
Going on into midwifery or related fields (which would require a transition into medicine of course.)
Becoming involved in the production of documentaries about women's historical contributions.
Curating a museum dedicated to, or featuring, exhibits of creative work produced by women.
There are plenty of branches one could take from such a starting point, but one would have to be planning one's future as such and I think that many college students aren't. I personally think that young people should wait a while and work low wage jobs for at least a few years before they start college, unless they are just so incredibly good at something that they are getting scholarships to charge right in and study it. I do suspect that many Women's Studies majors just kind of don't know what they're heading into in life for a career, but figure they should go to college to get there.
But the same could be said of many students studying for many kinds of degrees.
I think that men's studies would be interesting too, though. I find it interesting personally, how men often talk about "how men are" and what they are describing is what they were taught to be, around other men. Which is this strong, tough, emotionless and "logical" creature. And yet, I would ask in particular married women, who have seen their mates with their guard down...is that all there is to a man? Nope. The toughest guy needs love and comfort and sometimes sheds tears. So many men have warned me about "other men" and tried to tell me they know how men "are." But they're not really thinking this through, because that's just how men are in company of OTHER men. And each of them that tells me he is so different from all the rest, is either lying, or has swallowed a huge cultural lie himself. There are some very interesting sociological phenomena in the realms of male thinking and behavior. I would find it interesting to not only think and read and talk about that, but about how this is different in different cultures, how the upbringing of men influences their mental health, and how behavior is different in all-male environments, from the military to prisons.
As a woman, I don't have any problem at all with the idea of Men's Studies and think that it would be interesting.
But I am not sure what kind of job it would get you!
Thank you for your sharing your thoughts. I find it somewhat disturbing some of the current male mindsets that white males somehow think they are suffering discrimination (not saying there are not some things they are getting hit with inappropriately). A little equality seems to send them over the edge.
It's only recently that history being taught is broadening to include women and minorities. I am someone who is for equality (equal opportunity, we are not all equal) and I am not active in either feminism or race based education.
Even if they had a class on male based history, it wouldn't phase me, and I wouldn't start posts against it. So I don't understand threads like this.
When you say equal opportunity what would you be talking about.
My 10 year old daughter brought up the thought that women make less money then men do. I asked her where she heard that from. She said her teacher told her that women make less money then men. In fact she had figures showing that women make $0.77 for every $1.00 you pay a man.
I informed my daughter that those numbers were not real numbers. When it comes to two people doing the same job with the same experience and time on the job then both men and women make the same. I also let her know, took her to a few other studies that show men and women are almost exactly paid the same in every industry and they have been for over 20 years.
Take a small business person or even a titan of industry. Both of these people want to save money for the business. I don't know anyone that will pay a $1.00 for something that they can get for $0.77 If I was running a business and could get away with paying women less money I would get rid of every guy on staff and only hire women.
The problem with pay studies is they fail to take into account plenty of things. Take my wife for instance. She left the work force for a while to raise kids. While her contemporaries were getting pay increases and moving up in there careers she was at home. When she came back to work she was given an offer that she liked and never questioned the fact that others made more than her. It does help when given job has a range that the employer stays within. Still, she could have moved further up if she had chosen to stay in the work force.
Ambition is another thing. I know 6 RN's that all started the same time, same week in fact.Pay was the same for all 6 of them. We have a 5 level program for the RN's. As you increase from a 1 on up to a 5 your pay goes up as well. Of the five RN's one was a guy. He was single at the time but decided to meet all the requirements to move up the ranks. It took him 5 years to make it to the top. He went on to become a director of the ER and now is the head of Nursing for one of our hospitals. He makes a lot of money. Another one of those RN's is still an RN 2. The other 4 are somewhere between a 3 and a 5 from what I know. All of them are making different money. All of them had the same opportunities to move up at the hospital.
Your bringing up things that have a value. People exchange money for religion, recipes, cooking foods, and fashion trends. You can find people all day long that have made money off the disciplines you brought up. Can you give any examples of those that have made money from womens studies other than those that teach?
Everything important is not about making money.
In fact, I recall something about throwing money changers out of the temple.
When you say equal opportunity what would you be talking about.
My 10 year old daughter brought up the thought that women make less money then men do. I asked her where she heard that from. She said her teacher told her that women make less money then men. In fact she had figures showing that women make $0.77 for every $1.00 you pay a man.
I informed my daughter that those numbers were not real numbers. When it comes to two people doing the same job with the same experience and time on the job then both men and women make the same. I also let her know, took her to a few other studies that show men and women are almost exactly paid the same in every industry and they have been for over 20 years.
Take a small business person or even a titan of industry. Both of these people want to save money for the business. I don't know anyone that will pay a $1.00 for something that they can get for $0.77 If I was running a business and could get away with paying women less money I would get rid of every guy on staff and only hire women.
The problem with pay studies is they fail to take into account plenty of things. Take my wife for instance. She left the work force for a while to raise kids. While her contemporaries were getting pay increases and moving up in there careers she was at home. When she came back to work she was given an offer that she liked and never questioned the fact that others made more than her. It does help when given job has a range that the employer stays within. Still, she could have moved further up if she had chosen to stay in the work force.
Ambition is another thing. I know 6 RN's that all started the same time, same week in fact.Pay was the same for all 6 of them. We have a 5 level program for the RN's. As you increase from a 1 on up to a 5 your pay goes up as well. Of the five RN's one was a guy. He was single at the time but decided to meet all the requirements to move up the ranks. It took him 5 years to make it to the top. He went on to become a director of the ER and now is the head of Nursing for one of our hospitals. He makes a lot of money. Another one of those RN's is still an RN 2. The other 4 are somewhere between a 3 and a 5 from what I know. All of them are making different money. All of them had the same opportunities to move up at the hospital.
One gendered difference that I am aware of, is that it is far more common for men to negotiate their salaries and raises, than for women. So setting aside all of the very valid points you make here, you could also have a man and a woman as candidates who are equal in every way and apply for the same job and are presented with offers, and the male candidate is a lot more likely to try and bargain his offer up for better pay, and the woman is far more likely to just take what she is offered and not argue. That is a result of socialization, which is not really the same as discrimination.
Kind of like, how I have noticed, that most of the time if there is a person in a group who constantly interrupts and talks over other people, it is usually a man. I am not saying that all or most men do this. Only that women are more commonly socialized to wait for others to finish, and not to interrupt, and not to be rude or demanding, and boys are more commonly forgiven this behavior and allowed or even encouraged to be more socially assertive.
Your bringing up things that have a value. People exchange money for religion, recipes, cooking foods, and fashion trends. You can find people all day long that have made money off the disciplines you brought up. Can you give any examples of those that have made money from womens studies other than those that teach?
I think you have a strangely singular and closed minded concept of value.
Yes, all of the examples I gave you are things that are not essential to daily life but nonetheless are of daily value to billions of people who do not make money from them, and of value to a fraction of people who do make money from them.
I can think of examples of value found from women's studies but I believe it would be a waste of time because you've indicated above that in your mind value only equals money and anything that doesn't make money is of no value.
I invite you to read the following definitions of 'value' and then re-evaluate what your own personal values are (if you have any) that don't involve only making money.
the worth of something compared to the price paid or asked for it:
"at $12.50 the book is a good value"
(values)
a person's principles or standards of behavior; one's judgment of what is important in life:
"they internalize their parents' rules and values" synonyms:principles · ethics · moral code · morals · standards · code of behavior
the numerical amount denoted by an algebraic term; a magnitude, quantity, or number:
"the mean value of x" · [more]
"an accurate value for the mass of Venus"
music
the relative duration of the sound signified by a note.
linguistics
the meaning of a word or other linguistic unit.
the quality or tone of a spoken sound; the sound represented by a letter.
art
the relative degree of lightness or darkness of a particular color:
"the artist has used adjacent color values as the landscape recedes"
estimate the monetary worth of (something):
"his estate was valued at $45,000" synonyms:evaluate · assess · estimate · appraise · price · put/set a price on
Why do so many universities claim to promote gender equality and yet they have a women's studies major but no men's studies major? Is this not a form of gender discrimination?
Most subjects by default are men's studies.
Separately there should be more gender studies to really dive into how gender is constructed and how it shapes out society, culture and history.
There is also a place for men's studies, but not a major in isolation of studying broader gender issues.
Generally women studies is very broad - covering women's contributions in many fields as well as gender identity / society stuff. I imagine over time women's studies will be renamed as something more akin to gender studies.
We call those circle degrees. They are of no value other than to teach others about them so that those people can get jobs teaching others. They create nothing. They build nothing, if they went away today no one would miss them. They have no value.
When you say equal opportunity what would you be talking about.
My 10 year old daughter brought up the thought that women make less money then men do. I asked her where she heard that from. She said her teacher told her that women make less money then men. In fact she had figures showing that women make $0.77 for every $1.00 you pay a man.
I informed my daughter that those numbers were not real numbers. When it comes to two people doing the same job with the same experience and time on the job then both men and women make the same. I also let her know, took her to a few other studies that show men and women are almost exactly paid the same in every industry and they have been for over 20 years.
Take a small business person or even a titan of industry. Both of these people want to save money for the business. I don't know anyone that will pay a $1.00 for something that they can get for $0.77 If I was running a business and could get away with paying women less money I would get rid of every guy on staff and only hire women.
The problem with pay studies is they fail to take into account plenty of things. Take my wife for instance. She left the work force for a while to raise kids. While her contemporaries were getting pay increases and moving up in there careers she was at home. When she came back to work she was given an offer that she liked and never questioned the fact that others made more than her. It does help when given job has a range that the employer stays within. Still, she could have moved further up if she had chosen to stay in the work force.
Ambition is another thing. I know 6 RN's that all started the same time, same week in fact.Pay was the same for all 6 of them. We have a 5 level program for the RN's. As you increase from a 1 on up to a 5 your pay goes up as well. Of the five RN's one was a guy. He was single at the time but decided to meet all the requirements to move up the ranks. It took him 5 years to make it to the top. He went on to become a director of the ER and now is the head of Nursing for one of our hospitals. He makes a lot of money. Another one of those RN's is still an RN 2. The other 4 are somewhere between a 3 and a 5 from what I know. All of them are making different money. All of them had the same opportunities to move up at the hospital.
I've read studies that women take off more time so actually provide less work. I'm not sure which is the truth but somewhere in between.
I MEAN equal opportunity. If the firefighters have X physical fitness parameters than those should be the same for women. It is part of the job.
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I think you have a strangely singular and closed minded concept of value.
