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It would have to be purely voluntary. If you don't take the deal, you qualify for a really limited set of benefits that amount to not starving.
For every sonic_spork hardship case there are 5 or 10 that are more like the members of my family who will never work (no, they're not black) because they've found ways to get benefits that are more valuable than the paycheck from any job that they'd qualify for. Her case should have been taken care of by a church, nonprofit organization, or mutual benefit society.
Why is that? Isn't it a failure of government that we have a federal minimum wage that doesn't cover even basic housing and food? Most of the "welfare queens" work every single day, all day. And even minimum wage jobs are taxed and half those taxes, last time I looked, went to entitlement programs like social security and medicare. If you want to bring family into it, my parents had unions jobs (gone when I hit the workforce) and free benefits, like medical insurance, for which I paid more than the cost of my rent, monthly, and co-payments besides, while being federally taxed to cover their Medicare. Social security? My mother claimed not to need it, but it didn't stop her cashing the check. She retired with two pensions, two social security checks, some medical coverage as a pension benefit, two IRAs, and because she enjoyed good health (pure luck), she considers herself quite savvy at life. Fair enough, she worked, she paid in, she saved, she was lucky. And she hated the poor, who she claimed had their hands in her pocket.
When my husband got kicked to the curb in his 50s from his last job of 10 years that offered the unaffordable insurance and no pension, he retrained at his own expense and got a $9 an hour job and refused to apply for any assistance, so I applied for it. You know why? I was ENTITLED to it because we spent 30-plus years paying for it. I could say it's another failure of government that age discrimination laws aren't enforced or that each succeeding generation is worse off than the one before it or that I may get very little, if any, of that social security and medicare I paid for.
The best thing you can do for the poor is enrich them, with education and opportunity. Work should pay more than welfare and working all week should net anyone who does it enough money to live indoors without needing subsidies and the ability to feed themselves and seek medical attention.
Forced labor camps?! How do people come up with that?
I like the idea presented by the OP. Anyone who doesn't want to be sent there is welcomed to get a job and fend for themselves just like the rest of us do. I work for what I have. Why should everything be freely given to those who refuse to work? It's not forced labor, it's common sense.
Really? So lets say you make $600 a week gross you personally have $300 taken out of every check JUST for entitlement programs? Really? Troll alert
No but if you make $6000 a week it's pretty close to half (state taxes count too). Remember that entitlement programs include SS, Medicare, etc. some of which benefit the taxpayer if he lives long enough.
Forced labor camps?! How do people come up with that?
I like the idea presented by the OP. Anyone who doesn't want to be sent there is welcomed to get a job and fend for themselves just like the rest of us do. I work for what I have. Why should everything be freely given to those who refuse to work? It's not forced labor, it's common sense.
Really? So tell me how well will some elderly person on Social Security and Medicare working on a farm will turn out for society. I work too and I'm willing to bet everyone who thinks this idea is ridiculous works as well. We don't keep ourselves up at night over this nonsense because we don't have this misanthropic belief that most people receiving these "entitlements" are scammers looking to take advantage of the system.
Why is that? Isn't it a failure of government that we have a federal minimum wage that doesn't cover even basic housing and food?
No. Governments don't set the real minimum wage, which is zero (what you get if the minimum wage puts you out of a job). If you want enough money to live independently, acquire a skill. No skilled worker makes the Federal minimum wage of $7.25 an hour.
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Most of the "welfare queens" work every single day, all day.
I am aware of that. I am more concerned with those abusing the disability programs. They play a lot of golf and baseball. I know from experience with family members (who owe me a lot of money). It's hard work scamming the government, but they don't seem to mind doing that kind of work.
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my parents had unions jobs (gone when I hit the workforce) and free benefits, like medical insurance
Nothing is free. Their union bargained away part of your parents' cash compensation to pay for the insurance. That is usually a good deal, but calling it free doesn't make it free.
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The best thing you can do for the poor is enrich them, with education and opportunity.
I agree.
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Work should pay more than welfare and working all week should net anyone who does it enough money to live indoors without needing subsidies and the ability to feed themselves and seek medical attention.
That is a nice goal, but it is hard to accomplish because people differ in their ability, and some people will never be skilled. I wish everyone were above average, or at least above an IQ of 90 or 95, but it ain't going to happen. There will always be a part of the population that requires public support. I don't like it, but I can't do anything about it. It's part of nature.
Currently, taxpayers lose half their paychecks to pay for so-called "entitlement" programs. Those on welfare get a subsidized private apartment; food stamps (which can used to buy fattening junk food); a check to buy cigs, beer, and lottery tickets; money enough to have cable TV and Internet; they get extra money for having more kids they can't support; many just sit around all day or get into trouble (gangs, drugs, crime), and the cycle continues for generations. Those in homeless shelters wander the streets of the city all day randomly.
So I have a solution. You set up essentially camps in the country. Everyone has everything they need: food (communal dining; only healthy diets), shelter (same-sex bunkhouses, trailers for families), and everyone works on the farm all day growing vegetables, raising livestock, perhaps making marketable craft items. No one sits around idle. Reasonable health care is provided, as are opportunities to get a GED and job training.
If they want better, they can do better ("poor" isn't an immutable state, as many seem to think); if not, continue there, where they are self-sustaining and not a drain on society. Seems like a decent life to me.
In the 1930s, we had the CCC, and those men say it was the best time of their lives. They had all they needed to live and were productive. "Something for nothing" demoralizes both the giver and the receiver.
Thoughts?
Subsidized housing is very hard to get, simply because demand far far exceeds supply, and waiting lists are 10+ years long in many places. I couldn't even get on the waiting list.
I hope the OP has everything planned for. That includes long term care insurance. People in nursing homes are a bigger expense than most others on social programs. These are usually people that never needed help until the end of their lives and then they take much more than the "welfare queen."
Taxpayers lose half of their paychecks to pay state, property, Medicare, social security, federal taxes and often ridiculously expensive Health Insurance with high deductible. I think half of the federal tax pays for the defense budget. The portion that goes toward the entitlements programs is probably 1/8 of the paycheck or so. It offers some minimum safety net that allows poor not to starve.
So you are proposing a system of Forced Labor camps? Great idea if you want to live in North Korea. US still has this little thin book that is called "Constitution".
About 60 percent of all federal spending is considered mandatory, with 34 percent considered discretionary and 6 percent devoted to interest. You are obviously getting your figures from one of those biased charts put out by liberals, where they ignore mandatory spending and only look at discretionary.
When you look at BOTH, then entitlements spending is over 1/2 the federal budget, and defense spending is about 15-20 percent of the budget annually. You have to look at MANDATORY and DISCRETIONARY spending.
Currently, taxpayers lose half their paychecks to pay for so-called "entitlement" programs. Those on welfare get a subsidized private apartment; food stamps (which can used to buy fattening junk food); a check to buy cigs, beer, and lottery tickets; money enough to have cable TV and Internet; they get extra money for having more kids they can't support; many just sit around all day or get into trouble (gangs, drugs, crime), and the cycle continues for generations. Those in homeless shelters wander the streets of the city all day randomly.
So I have a solution. You set up essentially camps in the country. Everyone has everything they need: food (communal dining; only healthy diets), shelter (same-sex bunkhouses, trailers for families), and everyone works on the farm all day growing vegetables, raising livestock, perhaps making marketable craft items. No one sits around idle. Reasonable health care is provided, as are opportunities to get a GED and job training.
If they want better, they can do better ("poor" isn't an immutable state, as many seem to think); if not, continue there, where they are self-sustaining and not a drain on society. Seems like a decent life to me.
In the 1930s, we had the CCC, and those men say it was the best time of their lives. They had all they needed to live and were productive. "Something for nothing" demoralizes both the giver and the receiver.
Thoughts?
It's a great idea! just 'concentrate' these undesirables in a 'camp' somewhere! and we could call it, let's see, umm, maybe a "concentration camp"? yeah, that's the ticket!
Really? So tell me how well will some elderly person on Social Security and Medicare working on a farm will turn out for society. I work too and I'm willing to bet everyone who thinks this idea is ridiculous works as well. We don't keep ourselves up at night over this nonsense because we don't have this misanthropic belief that most people receiving these "entitlements" are scammers looking to take advantage of the system.
Welfare and social security should never be equalized. That's a twisted parlor trick of the republican party. Welfare is an entitlement. Social Security is a promise earned. Let's all grow up about that, OK? Try to stay focused by working the problem.
Welfare is not sustainable. It's a snowball rolling down hill. It's a problem that needs a sensible solution. As soon as we start talking about solutions, people's emotions get riled and their knees start jerking, just like yours did. Work is not an enemy of the people.
If you think this is a ridiculous idea, offer another. Put some thought process behind it rather than throwing out false accusations and ripping at the ideas put forth by others.
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