Should disciplining your children include 'whippings', 'spankings' or 'beatings' (accuse, elect, state)
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That's your problem right there. A child who challenges his parents and pushes the limit constantly is not a "little monster".
Those children are usually the brightest and most curious children you see, BUT they have to have that energy directed. And nothing "makes" these kids that way. Kids are born that way, just like some are born quiet and gentle. But the child who dares anything is also likely to be the one to get into trouble more often and sometimes needs a little more than a talking to to get him to pay attention.
And if you understood my posts, you'd know I was in no way recommending doing the things you're talking about above. As I've said over and over, there is a HUGE difference between a deliberate swat from a parent who's trying to get control over his/her child and that same parent being upset or angry and taking that anger out on a child by physically hurting them somehow. The minute you've struck your kid in anger is the minute you lose.
The argument about the child darting out into traffic was mine. Here's how I perceive it: a child has to learn a couple of things to be safe when he's younger. One is to learn the word no and the other is to stay close to his parents (if possible). I don't expect a two or three year old to understand all the dangers of the road or the danger of running off at that age. So it's not exactly a parental failure.
But reinforcing no with a swat if the child does run off into traffic is helping you possibly save the life of your child and also limiting the number of times you have to yank him back to you. I'd prefer to bring him back with a no and a swat five or six times (or preferably less) if I have to instead of without the swat and just bringing him back with just a 'no' about 20 times. Your luck only extends so far before the one time you can't get him back quickly enough.
But I also want to say, again, children are very different. Some will never take off. Some will learn the first or second time you tell them. Some won't learn till they're 12 years old. It depends on what the particular nature of your child is.
You can't fit all children to just one way of discipline. You have to fit the discipline to each child and children can have different temperaments even in the same family.
And for the record, if I did have a child I knew who took off at the drop of a hat, I'd have him on a child leash. But of course, that's an entirely different topic and I'd probably get a lot of backlash because of how I'd use the child leash, too.
I think I tend to agree with most of what you say (minus the leash part!) and you explained it well.
Every kid is different and they are born that way. The parents need to work with what they have for that child's good. If you're blessed with a total angel of a child, a few words will be usually be enough to teach them right from wrong.
If your kid is one of those "born monsters", good luck! You can talk to them all you want but you won't get anywhere. Their brains are wired that way.
There's a happy medium somewhere between being too strict and not strict enough. We've all seen the spoiled brats who don't know or respect the meaning of "no." Parents who are actually afraid of saying the word "no." Parents who believe Disneyworld is the right of every kid and who buy them anything they want and let them act any way they want. Badges for just showing up too. They are not doing their kids any favors by not teaching them how to live and survive in this world. In fact, that sort of parenting is probably more abusive than the kind that gives an occasional swat/spanking so that they will learn.
When kids are very young (toddlers) they cannot understand logic and reasoning. They cannot think long range enough to understand when you explain that if they run into the road, they could get run over. They cannot understand consequences. They cannot understand that they should not try to climb up on the ladder that daddy is using when he paints the house. When you catch them doing something like that and it's dangerous, you must do something that they will understand, something that will make a strong impression so that they never do it again. Ever. So a loud, angry voice could be effective=NO! And combined with a swat on the bottom, that word NO is reinforced. You are appealing to their emotions and that's about all they can understand at that tender age. Scare them (yes, there are things in life that we all need to be scared of. That is true and not wrong.) And give them a small taste of the physical pain that might ensue if they did run in front of that car or climb that ladder and fall. Real life is like that and we are only giving them an honest preview of real life.
Disciplining them does not make them hate you, in fact kids crave discipline and they will love you more for it. It shows them that you care about them.
Back to the little kid running into the road. The NO and a little swat (spank) will stop them and will shock them and more than likely they will not do it again. It may sound over the top but it works and in that case, you really need something that will work! It's life or death.
As they get older, maybe 5 years old or so, you can sit down and reason with them. They will understand but they will test you by trying to get away with things. So you will be doing it over and over. That's to be expected. They are trying to test the limits, which is normal. You might still have to reinforce your discipline with a loud NO and even a swat on their bottom. It gets the idea across effectively when talking doesn't work. The swat/spank is only used in extreme situations and it is not out of anger (although you probably are angry and scared that they would do such a thing.)
Most adults who have been spanked (normal spanking, not what people are calling "whipping" or "beating") were glad of it and have not turned into abusers of any sort. They are glad that their parents got it over with and it taught them a lesson. They did NOT want to get away with what they did and they know they deserved it.
I have also heard of it being taken too far. Heard of that in military families where kids were disciplined too much. Where I come from, it was only something I read about though. We do not beat or whip. If you discipline too much, the kid will become an angry person who may go on to become a criminal. That's an abused kid. Maybe with alcoholic, out of control parents or parents on drugs. But I have never seen a kid around here get hit in a store and no one beats or whips a kid.
Make too many silly rules and the kid will rebel and turn out worse for it. Use physical punishment too much, same thing. There is a moderate, middle of the road stance that works and it's a little bit different for every kid.
If you don't discipline your child and let them get away with everything, they never learn SELF discipline. The parent teaches discipline first because the kid doesn't know. As they grow, they learn to discipline themselves=self discipline, and they shouldn't need you so much anymore to teach it to them. Think of a kid who has never been taught discipline--the lazy kid who can't make themselves do their homework, can't do things they don't want to do, can only do things that please them, are not considerate to others--like the kids who run around in restaurants, annoying other people because the parents refuse to teach them how to behave. The teenager who, instead of getting a part time job or doing something else worthwhile that he doesn't necessarily want to do, can only do things that he wants--like taking drugs or drinking.
I think we need to get over these issues of "whipping" and "beating" and making any connection to a simple, controlled spanking/swat on the bottom. It is not normal and is not done but if it was done in the distant past, maybe it was because people had families of ten kids or more! They worked hard on the family farm in those days (100+ years ago) and didn't have time to sit down individually with each kid and talk or to speak a stern NO to them. So the best they could do--in those days--was to grab a belt or a branch from a tree and hit them. That's my theory but that was THEN and it is not TODAY. Maybe it even prepared them for the harsh world that they were to grow up in back then.
Another theory I have is that we have gone from that out dated, old fashioned model of physical discipline to the other extreme. We have generations now who have all sorts of emotional problems, can't handle daily life or a job, need their parents to come to their college to talk to their professors, because the parents never allowed them to suffer a little bit or solve their own problems. They were coddled and spoiled. Parents like that are raising emotional cripples, sadly enough. Help them, advise them, but let them fail if they do fail and let them learn how to get back on their own two feet. It will serve them well. But let them know that you are always available to talk to and for advice but that they need to learn to survive, failures and all, and that the difficult parts of life can be learning experiences that make them smarter and stronger. Help them but don't totally rescue them, teach them so they can become emotionally healthy adults.
I don't believe in physical punishment. However, as someone who has worked with kids for near on 15 years, I am always shocked at how so many kids rule the parents and of general attitudes and laxness when it comes to parenting. It is truly depressing. So many kids are treated like little snowflakes, it is ridiculous.
I don't believe in physical punishment. However, as someone who has worked with kids for near on 15 years, I am always shocked at how so many kids rule the parents and of general attitudes and laxness when it comes to parenting. It is truly depressing. So many kids are treated like little snowflakes, it is ridiculous.
I see what you are describing almost every day, some parents are oblivious to what their kids are doing and seem almost indifferent to wanting to teach them right from wrong. NO ONE likes a bad kid.
One time at work I was helping a dad with his purchases and his little girl was tearing up the store. She was ripping stuff off the shelves and he could care less. Finally, I couldn't take it any more and said to him " I really don't envy you, bud." When he asked what I meant, I said " When she turns 16 you are going to have no control over her because you have none right now !" He mumbled something and left the store, but I sure felt a lot better for saying it.
We, humans are both animals and mammals. Humans have an evil trait that is rarely or never seen in the animal kingdom. They don't see killing for food as anything evil, but for survival. Their methods seem cruel to us,(a cat with a mouse) but those methods are natural to them. They aren't doing it to be evil.
With that being said, if you observe the animal world, animals discipline their offspring quite strictly at times when their offspring misbehaves.
eg: Horses, cats and dogs all nip their youth. Horses also kick their young. Dolphins push their young and rub their noses on the bottom sand. Chimps and gorillas will nip and/or swat with their hands. Lions and bears swat their youth. These are all forms of discipline if their offspring gets out of hand.
I certainly don't condone beating a child, but a soft spank puts a little respect into an unruly child. I also agree with a spank when a child who has done something dangerous to themselves or others, and KNOWS BETTER. (such as being caught playing with daddy's gun even though daddy is at fault for leaving the gun where the child could find it)
I see what you are describing almost every day, some parents are oblivious to what their kids are doing and seem almost indifferent to wanting to teach them right from wrong. NO ONE likes a bad kid.
One time at work I was helping a dad with his purchases and his little girl was tearing up the store. She was ripping stuff off the shelves and he could care less. Finally, I couldn't take it any more and said to him " I really don't envy you, bud." When he asked what I meant, I said " When she turns 16 you are going to have no control over her because you have none right now !" He mumbled something and left the store, but I sure felt a lot better for saying it.
Yes and they always make excuses, I find working mothers do it a lot. They blame their kids behaviour on the fact that they are just missing the parents or they are tired, hungry etc. Drives me insane, I cannot stand bratty kids and will not be spoken to like trash by any kid.
The nicest thing anyone ever said to me was my son: "You don't spank me; you're my daddy".
I started using humor really early in his life experience as a tool. In his case it worked. That's not to say that a different child would not respond to that kind of program, but it was a goal.
Especially since corporal punishment was common in schools I went to as well as my parents generation. But I deliberately broke that mold. My mom's parents never took a hand to their kids. When I see a cell-phone texting, smoking, fat young parent smack their kid on the bus just because he's seeking attention I think about doing the damn jail time just for him. The convenience of that kind of punishment makes me sick.
I don't believe in physical punishment. However, as someone who has worked with kids for near on 15 years, I am always shocked at how so many kids rule the parents and of general attitudes and laxness when it comes to parenting. It is truly depressing. So many kids are treated like little snowflakes, it is ridiculous.
I agree, I too worked with pre fives and yes Ive seen it too...but the majority of children are well behaved with good manners.. It all starts with the parents how a child develops.
We, humans are both animals and mammals. Humans have an evil trait that is rarely or never seen in the animal kingdom. They don't see killing for food as anything evil, but for survival. Their methods seem cruel to us,(a cat with a mouse) but those methods are natural to them. They aren't doing it to be evil.
With that being said, if you observe the animal world, animals discipline their offspring quite strictly at times when their offspring misbehaves.
eg: Horses, cats and dogs all nip their youth. Horses also kick their young. Dolphins push their young and rub their noses on the bottom sand. Chimps and gorillas will nip and/or swat with their hands. Lions and bears swat their youth. These are all forms of discipline if their offspring gets out of hand. barking mad springs to mind.
I certainly don't condone beating a child, but a soft spank puts a little respect into an unruly child. I also agree with a spank when a child who has done something dangerous to themselves or others, and KNOWS BETTER. (such as being caught playing with daddy's gun even though daddy is at fault for leaving the gun where the child could find it)
"hitting a child for playing with daddys gun".......Im out of here,,now Ive heard it all....... Ive now realized how crazy some comments are on here.. there really is a big problem on here.. why not lay into daddy.... What are you on about comparing animal behaviour with a human.... animals cant talk, we can, we can communicate with our children before hitting out at them....
Call me a hippy-dippy snowflake or whatever you want, but physical punishment isn't something I support. Spanking, whipping, beating, waterboarding, or even good old fashioned car battery electrocution. I don't doubt it's effective if the goal is to get the kid to stop doing something you don't want them to and RESPECT YOUR AUTHORITY, at least while they're smaller than you. It's archaic and study after study shows it's bad for the long-term development of kids.
That doesn't mean the kids get to do whatever they want, but the consequences of their actions (or inactions) should be as natural as possible. That's how it works in the real world.
I know some people say it's ok for dangerous situations, but how exactly? I will physically restrain or prevent my kid from getting themselves hurt, but that's not spanking. That's holding, or lifting, or dragging out of the way. If they aren't able to be safe in a dangerous situation I will remove them from the situation.
Another common retort is that "some kids just need it". I guess. I'm sure some kids will only become compliant after a severe beating--not even spanking will solve their behavior issues--does that make it ok?
Last edited by jayrandom; 08-11-2017 at 06:32 AM..
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