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I wasn't talking about you, that I know of, just people in general who equate beating and whipping with a spanking.People who call it child abuse.
A person with Alzheimers probably cannot learn so it wouldn't do any good, any more than giving him a time out or taking away his privileges. This is about teaching good behavior to kids who are capable of learning.
And the word "helpless" is being used as if that's why a person would spank a kid--because they are "helpless." No, spanking is used when a little kid is too young to understand reason and they are at risk of doing something dangerous. It's used on older (not helpless) kids who have violated a known rule, a serious rule and words would fail. Some kids would be fine with words but others need to have it demonstrated to them. Every kid is different.
But the assumption is that a 2 year old will learn from a spanking. Maybe, maybe not.
But for many people who spank excessively, it is not about teaching. It is about answering the spanker's frustration.
A bit of humor--hearkening back to an earlier age when spanking was routine--large families of ten or more kids and not much time for explanations, just a quick swat and NO!
My late 95 year old aunt told me of an instance with her dad ,probably around 1920. She was very beautiful when she was young--and from other stories, also quite daring and a challenge to her parents.
She said one day she was standing on the street corner, flirting with the boys. Her father came walking by on his way home from work and reminded her that it was dinner time and she needed to go home.
She never showed up for dinner. Her dad returned to the street corner where she was still blatantly disobeying him and fooling around with the boys. He grabbed a branch from a nearby lilac bush and gave her a swat and said to get home! Your mother has dinner waiting.
She recalled, with a laugh, that it became a family joke: "The day dad came after me with the lilac bush."
(No, she was not psychologically ruined. She did not become violent. She knew very well that she was in the wrong and if she was embarrassed in front of the boys, it served her right.)
But the assumption is that a 2 year old will learn from a spanking. Maybe, maybe not.
But for many people who spank excessively, it is not about teaching. It is about answering the spanker's frustration.
Those people exist and they should not be spanking their kids. Spanking is for exceptions, when other methods don't work or would be less effective. It is controlled and not done out of anger. We hope a two year old would learn not to touch the hot stove if given a little swat combined with the word NO. Slight pain, loud word, so those are two methods being applied at the same time--could save their life or save serious injury.
Another thing, it's like conditioning. If they feel slight pain simultaneously with a loud NO, pretty soon they won't need the pain. They will associate it with NO. You will only have to say NO. So next time they are doing something dangerous all that is needed is NO.
But if people don't understand spanking then they shouldn't be doing it and if they can't control themselves and are doing it out of anger, they shouldn't be spanking.
An example would be me as a little kid--if I knew I shouldn't be reaching into the cookie jar. But I did it anyway--NO and a light slap on the hand works better than just plain no. I do not know the reason except that there were two methods used at the same time. Just NO alone is not as effective as the two methods applied at the same time.
But the time I ate the tie back pin from the curtains nothing was done to punish me because I had already done it. Too late. Anyway, I think my mother's frantic, frightened behavior was enough to ensure that I would never do THAT again, lol.
could it possibly be enjoyment....oh they ll learn alright..... they will learn aggression and hatred..
I think so.
How many times have I heard an angry parent say (almost verbatim), "If you don't stop crying, I'm going to give you something to cry about!"
And there is what I consider to be the issue with even spanking. How many basically good people can suddenly jump just a little out of control when exerting power over another person. Sorry to some, but that does happen.
This is a different situation, but once when I was a school principal, a middle school girl got angry during a game of field hockey in PE class and threw the hockey stick, which hit another student in the mouth breaking off her two front top teeth at the gumline, requiring dental surgery and the implantation of fake teeth. The girl who threw the hockey stick said, "I didn't mean to hurt anyone", as if that erased the pain and suffering of the other student. As a school administrator, I have watched parents go out of control even in the school setting. It happens, and it happens in private even more.
It sure does. We are teaching them right from wrong. When all else fails the beating is the last resort. My Mother liked to beat her kids with the bible, not the paperback mind you. the hard cover thick one. It's about the size of a child's torso so she would hit the entire body while she burned us with religious candles on staffs. As we would beg her for mercy she would ask WHERE IS YOUR GOD NOW! I turned out just fine.
And how did your kid turn out? I have seen this method of parenting. The kids grow up to have no moral compass and are out of control. Several friends of mine went this way. One kid is in prison the other is dead. All that talking, caring and understanding and being a friend to their children didn't work out. My Son said to me the other day that I was his best friend and he asked me if I was his. I told him that I'm his parent first and his friend second. If I was his friend I wouldn't be a good parent. I have plenty of friends, I only have one Son and it's my obligation to use every tool at my disposal same as my parents did to me to ensure he is able to stand on his own two feet when he is an adult. Frankly, anyone who isn't willing to use a all their tools should give their kids up for adoption.
Why is there The idea that not hitting (and spanking is a mild form of hitting) your kid means not disciplining them? Discipline without striking takes additional effort and patience, but it can still be done. I mean it's a lot easier to get someone weaker than you to do what's you want them to do if you can threaten them with pain, but it's not acceptable at work, or at the grocery store, so I fail to see why it should ok with your kids. I'm sick of people walking away from this point by claiming spanking is much lighter than beating. I agree that a spanking is mild pain, but it's still pain. Administered to gain compliance. Maybe it teaches a lesson, but the lesson is always "do what I say".
And I find the last statement a little odd. I've got a lot of tools. Hammers, saws, drills, even a power sander. I wouldn't consider using those on my kids. So I should call the adoption agency? Everyone who is pro-spanking has been adamant they spank and don't beat and there's a difference. They choose to limit themselves to spanking. Where exactly do you draw the line? Why does it bother you so much that I draw the line at physical pain?
Last edited by jayrandom; 08-12-2017 at 03:32 PM..
It sure does. We are teaching them right from wrong. When all else fails the beating is the last resort. My Mother liked to beat her kids with the bible, not the paperback mind you. the hard cover thick one. It's about the size of a child's torso so she would hit the entire body while she burned us with religious candles on staffs. As we would beg her for mercy she would ask WHERE IS YOUR GOD NOW! I turned out just fine.
It sure does. We are teaching them right from wrong. When all else fails the beating is the last resort. My Mother liked to beat her kids with the bible, not the paperback mind you. the hard cover thick one. It's about the size of a child's torso so she would hit the entire body while she burned us with religious candles on staffs. As we would beg her for mercy she would ask WHERE IS YOUR GOD NOW! I turned out just fine.
Not a very funny joke.
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nothing was done to punish me because I had already done it. Too late. Anyway, I think my mother's frantic, frightened behavior was enough to ensure that I would never do THAT again, lol.