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So you can tell when someone stands but is being disrespectful in their mind and heart then?
The outer trappings of "patriotism" are meaningless nonsense. Standing, sitting, kneeling, jumping on a pogo stick while sticking your tongue out - all equally meaningless.
I haven't stood for the National Anthem since I was a child. Songs don't matter. Flags don't matter.
People matter.
Yep.
I have told this story before, but I will tell you again that some of the people that I'm sure are REALLY TICKED OFF about football players taking a knee during the anthem were among the large group at the Tomb of the Unknowns who were loud, crackling plastic water bottles, laughing, and being highly disrespectful in the middle of July during the changing of the guard.
It was disgusting to me. People should behave respectfully in such a place or just not go there.
Yet, they're livid over football players not being respectful to a song right before they go beat each other up on the field.
Baffling.
Utterly baffling.
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With the OP, i'm not shocked. Considering that I spent nine active, twenty-six in reserves, have three Purple Hearts, I think I should be shocked and pi$$ed off but once again, i'm not. I see it as the deterioration of American society, perhaps most all of societies. I'm wondering how many of you that posted actually served. I've said it many times in the past, it seemed like a good idea at the time, but doubt I would do it again. If there was a full scale war where we had to win, I would happily serve even though i'm well in my 70's. Too many actions are started by politicians and finished by the regular people.
I don't stand for the national anthem, and I am not a patriot. This country is just somewhere where I happen to live, because it's where I happen to have been born. Beyond that, everything else about my residency here is nothing but an arrangement of mutual convenience. I pay taxes and help my community, and in return expect certain services and protections from my government. Nothing more or less than that.
There is more than one way to be patriotic and at the end of the day if the most patriotic thing you do is recite a crappy poem before sporting events you are no patriot.
I say the pledge every day at work but that would be a meaningless gesture if I didn't back it up with action... What is disrespectful to our nation isn't kneeling for a song but rather all the people who have given up on providing, sacrificing, and caring for their fellow countrymen.
We can always love the origins of this country, and those that made it great, without approving of the way things are now. We can be critical of the ways of the country now, and detours away from the origins/beginnings, without being critical of the country. If someone is screwing up, we can point to their behavior, rather than the person. And we have the right to point out was is wrong with the country. That was written in early in the founding of this country. They didn't want a bunch of "yes people" to rubber-stamp foolishness.
I don't consider myself overly patriotic - at least not in a showy way, to appease others - but am thankful and grateful for the country. I'm as patriotic as I need to be, with the freedoms and liberties the country gives to each of us. I don't give a rat's @ss though if my appreciation or patriotism doesn't fit someone else's approach, or meets his or her checklist.
I think Kaepernick & other football players who have kneeled during the anthem--especially given the ancestry of many of these players--have reason to be critical not just of the way the country is now but also of its origins. The immediate source of protest is police brutality with disproportionate impact on Black and Hispanic people. But it's not difficult to pencil a line from police brutality to the pre-Civil Rights era, to Jim Crow, to Black Codes, and to slavery.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Terryj
You ask if it is unpatriotic to kneel during the national anthem, to me, it shows a lack of respect. Respect for the values we hold dear in this country, the respect for just how far we have come in this country, the respect to those who have given their full measure for this country. Agreed, one can call it a form of free speech, but at what cost has this free speech extracted from it's population, countless lives. So, IMO, to kneel during the national anthem is to give no meaning to those who have brought you what you have today.
Of course it is Free Speech. How can you suggest that this Free Speech has cost lives? It seems quite evident that this Free Speech is about lives unjustly taken.
There is more than one way to be patriotic and at the end of the day if the most patriotic thing you do is recite a crappy poem before sporting events you are no patriot.
I say the pledge every day at work but that would be a meaningless gesture if I didn't back it up with action.
Great points. There seem to be two groups of people in this country concerning patriotism:
The superficial bunch that think that following the group and doing what others do makes them patriotic. It's about outward behaviors and actions; what others can see. It's about checking off a simplistic box that they marched along with others, and waved the same flag, and ended up just copying others.
Then there's the other group that isn't interested in cloning others and "being seen". It's a group that feels the depths and bounds of this country, and what it can entail, and isn't looking around to see how what others think of them. They're more interested in acting on their values, rather than just giving lip service. The group doesn't need to be seen and back-patted to feel worth. This group holds the deeper and truer spirit of this country.
The first group might be like a football game; interesting and maybe fun, but doing nothing productive or making a difference in society. The other might be like volunteering, or assisting others in some disaster. A difference will be made, and people truly benefit.
But you enjoy the freedoms that brave men and women who did love this country fought & died for.
Well, to begin with, the "brave men and women" didn't include women throughout much of our history. Some of them fought and died because they were drafted, not because they were high minded about saving the country. Many people served this country in many different ways and were just as important as soldiers -- teachers, ministers, miners, factory workers, teachers, doctors, etc.
I may be wrong, but I sense you are one of those who believe in "my country, right or wrong", when saying that really cheapens any sense of patriotism.
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