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Doesn't make sense. Before they got the percocets they didn't have pain. After they got the pain they asked for percocets. So what were they doing before starting to take opioids? Not suffering from pain, that's what.
I did not say they should have done something differently before they were in pain, I said they should have tried different approaches to pain management before they started taking opioids on a regular basis.
* Doctors for most part have stopped prescribing opioids under any circumstances.
* about 100 million people in this country live with chronic pain
* OTC NSAID's don't work for them
* in the amounts they need to control pain they'll die from liver/kidney failure first
* many have been pushed off their pain meds abruptly and are going through withdrawals
* this leaves them with 3 choices:
a. live with the sometime unbearable pain
b. commit suicide
c. buy opioids on the street and risk death from OD
They've tried to get other doctors to help them to no avail. Many doctors hang signs on their front door "No pain patients accepted".
What should they do?
I don't know why the govt is getting involved in this. People are responsible for their own actions. Prohibition and the drug war we've had going for eons didn't work.
Yes, it's a big problem. But the govt can't fix every problem.
People need these drugs sometimes. That trumps idiots who overdo it. No one should have to endure pain because some idiot likes to take those drugs for funsies.
This particularly affects seniors. They can't go looking for them elsewhere. Bedridden and in pain, they are left to suffer because a soccer mom took too many pills.
Every time this topic comes up (which has been frequently) I comment. Yet I've yet to actually SAY much of anything because I know my real opinion is confrontational. And I'm not a confrontational person. I have enough difficult, long-term issues IRL: I never log on here to pick a fight.
So I pussyfoot around it every time I comment & I'm really pretty disgusted with myself at this point for being such a wimp! So I'm just going to say it cause somebody needs to:
"Are the new opioid prescribing restrictions pushing innocent people to the streets to buy heroin?"
Well, buying Heroin on the street is illegal here. So by definition of the law; once you have purchased Heroin you are no longer innocent.
Default answer to that question is: No.
You're wrong, coschristi. Look at the sentence "pushing innocent people to the street". Until they walked into the neighborhood where heroin is sold they were innocent. 1. They were in pain. 2. they were being treated legally and getting relief from the pain 3. their treatment was suddenly cut off by an uncaring doctor (against the law, by the way to cut off a patient suddenly without weaning) 4. they went into withdrawal 5. they tried to find other doctors to be treated by 5. they failed 6. out of desperation they went to the street to seek relief from the withdrawal.
Now these people you call guilty had to traverse 5 steps before getting to the point where they felt they had to break the law. I don't call these people guilty if they were forced by circumstances to commit a crime they were pushed into by uncaring government agencies and uncaring physicians.
Quote:
Originally Posted by coschristi
Are you implying (as is acceptable by public opinion) that chronic pain patients are innocent users of opiates while Heroin users are guilt-worthy users? Obviously; public opinion demands the answer to that be : No. It seems counter-intuitive to imply anything close to that assertion.
That's the wrong question ... they both are. "Are the new opioid prescribing restrictions pushing people to the streets to buy heroin?"
Yes. So did the old prescribing restrictions. People aren't dropping like flies from overdoses & tainted drugs because they all had insurance & an appropriate diagnosis & prescribed opiates. Only the one's who don't are. But one is a "Patient" & the other is a "Criminal".
How can you even make a legitimate comparison between a person responsibly using opioids legally prescribed for him by a licensed physician and a heroin user. They're like night and day. So yes, chronic pain patients ARE innocent users of opioids while heroin users are guilty ones. That should be plain as day to you but for some strange reason it is not.
I don't get your third paragraph but I'll try to address it. Chronic pain patients are not dropping like flies, true, although a tiny fraction do misuse and accidentally OD and die. The vast majority of deaths from prescription pills are idiot kids who steal the medicine out of their mother's cabinet to experiment and die. They're the ones that zealots in the FDA are using as an excuse to attack ALL pain patients and forcing doctors to cut off their prescriptions---meds which the pain patients formerly had been using responsibly and without abuse. Now hundreds of thousands, if not millions, suffer in pain for the sins of a few idiot kids.
Last year there were 40,000 suicides in the US. Conservative estimates are that 20,000 of them likely were the result of untreated intractable pain.
Quote:
40 percent of all suicides in Montana are directly related to chronic pain and illness.
Add to that the thousands of INNOCENT patients driven to the streets to seek relief who died because of unregulated street drugs, not just heroin. Add to that the thousands of INNOCENT people dying of kidney/liver failure from overuse of NSAID's. Add to that the thousands of INNOCENT people dying from alcohol abuse trying to kill their pain and you get a number that dwarfs the the idiot kids dying from pills stolen from their parents' cabinet. Yet for some strange reason the FDA cares more about the few thousand idiots than it does the hundred and fifty or so thousand INNOCENTS who died because they were driven to other means out of desperation. I really cannot comprehend your comparisons at all, christie so I'll stop there.
Last edited by thrillobyte; 09-22-2017 at 09:50 PM..
* Doctors for most part have stopped prescribing opioids under any circumstances.
* about 100 million people in this country live with chronic pain
* OTC NSAID's don't work for them
* in the amounts they need to control pain they'll die from liver/kidney failure first
* many have been pushed off their pain meds abruptly and are going through withdrawals
* this leaves them with 3 choices:
a. live with the sometime unbearable pain
b. commit suicide
c. buy opioids on the street and risk death from OD
They've tried to get other doctors to help them to no avail. Many doctors hang signs on their front door "No pain patients accepted".
What should they do?
Given that opioids are nearly inaccessible in most other countries, I think that saying that people here are rushing to heroin because they can't get a hold of prescription narcotics is a little bit strange.
Are we just a bunch of wimps and idiots?
You know what Americans have a real problem with? Instant gratification. And the idea that life might have a little pain you have to deal with.
I can always tell when people I deal with were never athletes. They act like they should never have a painful moment in their life. Or maybe they watch too much Star Trek. Because they don't realize that even with the best medications, it is next to impossible to be pain-free at all times.
The only people I feel sorry for in this scenario are the people with cancer. And legitimate pain. Which is the vast minority of people demanding narcotics.
Given that opioids are nearly inaccessible in most other countries, I think that saying that people here are rushing to heroin because they can't get a hold of prescription narcotics is a little bit strange.
Are we just a bunch of wimps and idiots?
You know what Americans have a real problem with? Instant gratification. And the idea that life might have a little pain you have to deal with.
I can always tell when people I deal with were never athletes. They act like they should never have a painful moment in their life. Or maybe they watch too much Star Trek. Because they don't realize that even with the best medications, it is next to impossible to be pain-free at all times.
The only people I feel sorry for in this scenario are the people with cancer. And legitimate pain. Which is the vast minority of people demanding narcotics.
All the other people ruined it for them.
And I can always tell when I'm talking to a person who doesn't suffer from chronic intractable pain and YOU, stan are a person who DOESN'T suffer from chronic intractable pain, you lucky fella, you.
And I can always tell when I'm talking to a person who doesn't suffer from chronic intractable pain and YOU, stan are a person who DOESN'T suffer from chronic intractable pain, you lucky fella, you.
I have RSD from a botched procedure on my left arm. I use zero narcs. I have pain every single day.
But maybe you missed the part where I said they were people in legitimate pain. And they are the vast minority of patients I see demanding narcotic pain medicines.
I have RSD from a botched procedure on my left arm. I use zero narcs. I have pain every single day.
But maybe you missed the part where I said they were people in legitimate pain. And they are the vast minority of patients I see demanding narcotic pain medicines.
So you are the standard by which your patients are judged? Good for you----you obviously don't know what pain really is! Oh, but wait---you're a doctor? What did they teach you in medical school? That patients are beneath your contempt if they express pain?
Oh, but wait---you're a doctor? What did they teach you in medical school? That patients are beneath your contempt if they express pain?
Can you people seriously not read? What did they teach you in elementary school?
I said there are people who have legitimate pain.
People with fractures and cancer and kidney stones and nerve impingement that cannot be dealt with the surgery because they've been damaged so badly.
I readily prescribe these people narcotics for the short amount of time they need to get to the specialist.
But these are not the vast majority of people who demand narcotics. Many people demand narcotics for their tooth pain. Many people demand narcotics because of a contusion on their hand. Many people demand narcotics for their cough. Many people demand narcotics for sore throats and man colds. Many people demand narcotics for simple superficial lacerations. Spained ankles. Acne. Abrasions. Menstrual cramps. Swimmer's ear.
Things that nowhere else in the modern world anyone would ever expect to get narcotics for. And when they don't get the narcotics, they get mean.
Spare me your outrage and consider actually reading the post before you start blabbering on with your self-righteous nonsense.
I have RSD from a botched procedure on my left arm. I use zero narcs. I have pain every single day.
But maybe you missed the part where I said they were people in legitimate pain. And they are the vast minority of patients I see demanding narcotic pain medicines.
Well, I''m skeptical about your pain but I'll take your word. But do you actually feel that because you're one of the lucky ones who can waltz through severe pain that everyone in pain has this ability??? Come on!
And I never said all people in pain should take narcotics. My context has ALWAYS been intractable, severe pain. Maybe you missed that part yourself. There are some patients who don't need them who get them, that's true, though anybody in pain, severe or not, is being turned away at the door these days and I have the thousands of testimonies if you doubt me. Why don't you take my word for that as a return courtesy.
By the way, stan, are you familiar with the level of pain incurred when a 70 year old suffers from Peripheral Neuropathy, or advanced rheumatoid arthritis of the spine, or Complex Regional Pain Syndrome, or any one of a dozen other level 10 pain diseases? And you feel they should forego the "narcs" same as you??????
Cannabis, if their state doesn't imprison for that. If so, they might want to consider moving. Canada will legalize July 1, 2018, with most provinces likely having a minimum age of 18. Legal 21+ now in AK, CA, CO, DC, MA, ME, NV, OR, WA. Allowed for some medical issues in many other states, see norml.org/for details. I also read CBD oil from hemp plants is legal in all states except SD. Many places sell CBD oil online. Bluebird Botanicals looks like a good one, 40% discount for those existing below Federal Poverty Level.
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte
* Doctors for most part have stopped prescribing opioids under any circumstances.
* about 100 million people in this country live with chronic pain
* OTC NSAID's don't work for them
* in the amounts they need to control pain they'll die from liver/kidney failure first
* many have been pushed off their pain meds abruptly and are going through withdrawals
* this leaves them with 3 choices:
a. live with the sometime unbearable pain
b. commit suicide
c. buy opioids on the street and risk death from OD
They've tried to get other doctors to help them to no avail. Many doctors hang signs on their front door "No pain patients accepted".
What should they do?
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