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Old 09-28-2017, 08:57 AM
 
Location: Living rent free in your head
42,773 posts, read 26,060,801 times
Reputation: 33901

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Quote:
Originally Posted by rruff View Post
The source of every drug problem (and a lot of other problems) is taking something that people want and making it illegal.

We'd be so much better off with a heavily regulated and taxed drug dispensary system. Cut the criminal organizations out of the act.
I completely agree and the crime rate would drop off a cliff.
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Old 09-28-2017, 08:58 AM
 
Location: Ruidoso, NM
5,667 posts, read 6,566,942 times
Reputation: 4817
Quote:
Originally Posted by rstevens62 View Post
If they did that, what would happen to all the folks employed in the war on drugs though, all the various law enforcement agencies, the prison industry, etc. There would be a whole lot of people out of a job if they legalized everything and regulated it.
The number of *legal* jobs should increase. Law enforcement will still need to prevent illegal trafficking, driving under the influence, sales to minors, etc. Rehab, education, and counseling would increase. The legal distribution network would employ a lot of people. Plus whatever the tax windfall would be spent on.
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Old 09-28-2017, 01:08 PM
 
18,219 posts, read 16,829,913 times
Reputation: 7521
Quote:
Originally Posted by AtheistAstroGuy View Post
You are missing my point. There are people (such as myself) that will be on opiates for life. There is so much misinformation out there being sold by the FDA, CDC and DEA. They misrepresent studies about opiate studies and conclusions such as long term opiate use is ineffective. My family has a genetic disorder that causes a predisposition to multiple autoimmune diseases included RA, ankylosing spondylosis, Lupus, MS, as well as some others that they cannot completely diagnose. Opiates are the only thing that have kept us alive.

There are a class of people out there that are truly hurting those like me where opiates are our only solution. I have met many many people that have stayed on opiates for a long period of time (as in years) before being forced to look at other options. There are a great many people that had very minor instances of pain that are prescribed opiates because they oversell their pain. After a couple years they were kicked off and forced to go through a painful physical therapy or change to a drug such as lyrica or gabapentin, minor surgery, or in some cases just living with their pain. It is a completely different case compared to someone like myself where if I was required to live without opiates, I curl into the fetus position and cry, scream, yell, and am unable to do anything but that including eat, drink, or even go to the bathroom. Once in the hospital the attending physician didn't believe my dose and thought there must be a decimal place on my opiate dose. Within 24 hours I was not only screaming and curled up in pain,, but going through withdrawals, throwing up blood, dying. It was over a 3 day weekend where the primary doctor was gone and the intern wasn't allowed to change the dosage of my pain meds because of their draconian policy. They ended up sedating me and inducing a coma until the primary pain management doctor came back.

Until another form of pain medication comes along, Opiates are the only thing that keep me alive. I am scared to death with some of the new rules taking effect in just three weeks at CVS. https://www.statnews.com/2017/09/21/...iption-limits/ I don't know what I am going to do if they do not give me my current dosage. I am currently over 7 times the limit in the article. If I am limited to this amount. I doubt I will be alive come Christmas if this is true.
Atheist, what sort of backup plans are you making for what will almost certainly become a reality for those of us in serious chronic pain or headed there? Have you looked into moving to Mexico for example where it's easier to get a doctor to prescribe necessary meds and pharmacists are not terrified like they are here?
Why or why not? How about Europe as well where they don't have this police state mentality like the US does and are more sympathetic even though they prescribe less opioids?
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Old 09-29-2017, 07:37 AM
 
28,122 posts, read 12,504,066 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
Atheist, what sort of backup plans are you making for what will almost certainly become a reality for those of us in serious chronic pain or headed there? Have you looked into moving to Mexico for example where it's easier to get a doctor to prescribe necessary meds and pharmacists are not terrified like they are here?
Why or why not? How about Europe as well where they don't have this police state mentality like the US does and are more sympathetic even though they prescribe less opioids?
People like this need to stick together and fight the DEA on this, if enough people stand up to them, they loose their authority. They are clearly overstepping their bounds, and have no reason to come between a doctor and patient. This is one of those things where people (and doctors) need to grow a backbone and stand up to the tyrants.

The Constitution gives us (the people) the right and duty to throw off such govts. These drug laws are not about protecting our health and safety, they were not about this when they were initially created and they are not today, its strange more people cannot seem to recognize this, but I guess the govt has gotten pretty good at pulling the wool over our eyes.
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Old 09-29-2017, 08:07 AM
 
Location: Living rent free in your head
42,773 posts, read 26,060,801 times
Reputation: 33901
I had to have laser surgery on my gums a few days ago. The dentist explained that it would be really sore for several days and then said "I can give you some tylenol or advil for it but we don't prescribe opioids any more" I wouldn't have taken opioids if he had prescribed them but this was the first time I ever had a dentist apologize and say he couldn't prescribe them, things are changing fast, aren't they?
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Old 09-29-2017, 08:14 AM
 
Location: Living rent free in your head
42,773 posts, read 26,060,801 times
Reputation: 33901
Quote:
Originally Posted by rstevens62 View Post
People like this need to stick together and fight the DEA on this, if enough people stand up to them, they loose their authority. They are clearly overstepping their bounds, and have no reason to come between a doctor and patient. This is one of those things where people (and doctors) need to grow a backbone and stand up to the tyrants.

The Constitution gives us (the people) the right and duty to throw off such govts. These drug laws are not about protecting our health and safety, they were not about this when they were initially created and they are not today, its strange more people cannot seem to recognize this, but I guess the govt has gotten pretty good at pulling the wool over our eyes.
sick and disabled people who take opioids are unlikely to be able to overthrow the government. The only thing you can do is vote for rational politicians on a local, state and federal level who will base regulations on scientific evidence, not hysteria.
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Old 09-29-2017, 08:22 AM
 
860 posts, read 966,982 times
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You can only get a 7 day supply now here in NJ, also all scripts are kept in a database for any Dr to see to stop Dr shopping. You can only buy heroin in horrible crime ridden neighborhood's. I guess no easy options any more.
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Old 09-29-2017, 11:16 AM
 
Location: Fort Benton, MT
910 posts, read 1,075,762 times
Reputation: 2730
These changes are absolutely horrifying to me. I live in chronic pain. I have been on opiates for 17 years. Both of my feet were crushed while I was serving in the United States Navy. The Doctors pieced them back together using organ donor bone, 3 plates, and 9 screws in each foot. I have almost no range of motion in each foot. It hurts to stand, to move around, even sitting still my feet throb. I have extensive Nerve damage. Because of these changes, I was forced off of Hydrocodone, which worked well, onto Tylenol with Codeine. As it is, I am barely able to have a normal life. Now, I may be forced off of that, to a non scheduled medication. I might as well not take anything. The Veterans Administration won't let me amputate my feet, which is looking like the only option I have left. I would rather have prosthetics that work, than my crippled feet I have now. At least then I could run again, or spend a day with my kids in the park. I don't have any idea what I am going to do.


Where are all of the alternatives to opioids. I've heard about the poison dart frog, then the puffer fish, so far, no medications. All we have is the amazing little flower that God gave us, that our government no longer wants us to use.
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Old 09-29-2017, 12:10 PM
 
18,219 posts, read 16,829,913 times
Reputation: 7521
For those who are able I think the only option is to emigrate to a foreign country, maybe Europe where they are more compassionate about suffering. Forget Canada. They are as restrictive as the US now. I am seriously looking into this option. I am not in enough pain to move at the moment but i know it's only a few years down the road when I'm 70. I'm researching all I can now so I can decide if it's a viable option. Statistics are that Dr's in Europe actually prescribe less opioids than here. That's likely about to change as the US becomes the most restrictive country in the world. But Europe is much more progressive about opioid addiction. They use a more commonsense approach like not imprisoning addicts the way the US does. They don't have the prison industrial complex like we do so there isn't a profit motive in locking people up.
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Old 09-29-2017, 12:43 PM
 
Location: Wasilla, AK
7,448 posts, read 7,545,414 times
Reputation: 16456
Quote:
Originally Posted by rstevens62 View Post
Its about job security for law enforcement mainly, think about it, take away drug crime and drug related crime, what would police be left with? Would it be enough for them to justify the HUGE budgets they enjoy right now? Also its about prisons, take all drug offenders out, how many prisons would we really need then?

Its very interesting to read about why drug laws were originally created, even the founders of these laws admitted they were tools to control various races, namely a way to keep certain races out of certain parts of town. It was NEVER about protecting health and safety, that is a farce because they cannot state the real reasons.
I saw very few people come to jail over drugs. And when they did, it was for manufacturing, selling or distributing. The stereotypical scenario about going to jail for smoking a joint is absolutely false. You want to know what the number one crime people in my jurisdiction were arrested for? Driving with license suspended or revoked. That was the number one crime.
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