Why are people turning to Astrology and woo to guide their lives? (drug, money)

[monumentus]

As this is the great debates forum I trust you will forgive me for the long reply in response to your one liner.

Originally Posted by MyGoldenLife

What does it matter to you what individuals choose to do with their lives so long as it doesn't hurt YOU?

What a selfish view of the word and one I am glad I do not share. Sure what if people in countries far away choose to go to war - does not affect me so why care? Why should I care about rape. I am not a woman so statistically it is more unlikely I will ever get raped.

Why care about abortion at all given the chances I will ever be pregnant are minute. No one is likely to hit me either so I should not care about spouse abuse. Oh and I have a good house and a great job so why give a damn about the homeless. I never take hard drugs - so what are addicts to me?

No thanks. Many of us _do_ care about others and if individuals are being exploited and conned and lied to and fooled and more then we should care about A) going after the charlatans doing so and B) doing our best to educate and dissuade those who are wasting their money on it.

The usual counter argument I get (not to put words in _your_ mouth but just generally an argument I get) is that these things often bring comfort to the person exploited. Sure - they tell me - this charlatan is lying to a bereaved widow and taking her money - but that widow is getting comfort from being told the charlatan is contacting her lost husband in the here-after.

But I generally take two dim views of that. The first being that the comfort of some individuals is not a justification from accepting an industry of exploitation and charlatanism. The second is that we _treat_ an infected wound rather than merely cover over the pain with pain killers. Grief too is a wound and it should be treated directly rather than merely papering over the pain with lies and delusion.

It is possible for many to care about the welfare and actions of others - without the pre-requisite that we ourselves be directly impacted by it.

Originally Posted by tijlover

People might be shocked how secretly it's employed throughout the world, even by Human Resource people finding good candidates for a job.

To be shocked by a claim I would first have to be shown the claim is true - which is not something you seem to have moved to do here at all. But as with most conspiracy theories - the thing being done "secretly" is conveniently so secret that there is no evidence whatsoever available for it.

However what form you believe the "shock" will take is not clear. The tone of your post suggests that you expect the shock to be of the form "Oh my goodness so many top people are using this - there must be more to it than I thought" rather than what I expect it to be which would be more like "Oh my goodness - top people who are in positions of trust and power and authority are basing their decisions on the mumbo jumbo of pedlars of baseless nonsense".

Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth

In the few readings I've had done out of curiosity, they only point out general personality tendencies.

General personality tendencies that most people share - but people are too busy being wowed by how it applies to them so well to stop to realise it applies to every one else too.

Having done a few public talks and debates over the years I have had a few groups to do myself what I had previously only read or heard of other people doing in the past. Which was to stand in front of that audience and test out a few astrology readings.

And I - like the people I saw or read of doing before me - tricked them. I did things like:

1) Get all of one group to stand up and do their reading on their personality and ask them to sit down if the reading was poor. Of course most of them stayed stood up - at which point of course I revealed I had given them a reading from a totally different grouping entirely.

2) Give a reading without revealing which grouping it was for and ask people to stand if they believed it was their grouping. I - as expected - got a pretty equal representation of people standing up from all groupings

I also like the Derren Brown episode where he went around a few countries - all with different languages - and based on a tiny piece of information from volunteers - gave them a "reading" of their personality.

They were astounded by how accurate he "got them". You can see here how much they were impressed by the readings. One woman was even so shocked by it she did not want anyone else to read it because she felt it was so private and personal to her

Of course the big reveal in the end was that he had given identical readings to every volunteer across the world. How foolish this made them feel after talking at length about how perfectly personal the reading was - is anyone's guess. But that is how everyone who buys into this nonsense _should_ be feeling.

[Cliffie]

Originally Posted by eriko88

I had a chart reading done just for fun due to my mom being in astrology and what not. Lol the people that do those redings really like forcing their views on people. For example they tell me I must do good in teaching professions and I detest anything to do with schools, college. Been there done that as a student, that was enough. You couldn't feel any less appreciated and a drone in their hive mentality. I told them I'd rather work with people in a different field, like real estate, politics, or even as a police man. Yet they go "oh no, you have mercury whatever planet in whatever place therefore you should think about teaching again".

That's like a fortune teller telling someone "Go to Scandinavia, you'll be vary happy there" all the while you hate cold countries and don't do well among reserved cultures... My mother asked a psychic whether I should take this job as I was uncertain and she told her I'd be very very happy. Lol, nothing could be further from the truth. Next time I will follow common sense rather than external opinions. Those people just take money from believers anyway.

The thing is I notice more and more people using astrology or psychics to guide their lives. Out of all woo practices I think the best would be positive affirmations - they do work in boosting one's confidence. But not so sure about Astrology -- it's very fatalistic, focusing on doom, gloom and hardships.

A) What is a "woo practice"?

B) In my lifetime astrology has gone from being very, very important to people -- when I was in high school someone did a study that showed you were FAR more likely to know your sun sign than your own blood type -- to not important at all.

C) You make it sound as if you had consulted, not one, but more than one astrologer in your time. So where do you even really strand on this?


D) Anyone in any profession -- attorney, used-car dealer, palm reader, massage therapist -- is free to choose to focus on negatives or positives. If you've been talking to (by the sound of it) multiple astrologers who are Debbie Downer types, you can feel free to inform them that they'll get more customers if they focus more on positive chart positions and opportunities they see in the charts, not the problems.

[tijlover]

Originally Posted by monumentus

To be shocked by a claim I would first have to be shown the claim is true - which is not something you seem to have moved to do here at all. But as with most conspiracy theories - the thing being done "secretly" is conveniently so secret that there is no evidence whatsoever available for it.

However what form you believe the "shock" will take is not clear. The tone of your post suggests that you expect the shock to be of the form "Oh my goodness so many top people are using this - there must be more to it than I thought" rather than what I expect it to be which would be more like "Oh my goodness - top people who are in positions of trust and power and authority are basing their decisions on the mumbo jumbo of pedlars of baseless nonsense

Proof that, perhaps, human resource personnel are using Astrology to screen candidates for jobs?

Think this one out! Let's be realistic!

Word gets out that employers are secretly using Astrology to screen candidates for a job, you're looking at discrimination lawsuits! It would open up a big can of worms!

My roommate of 18 years will never know why I chose him for a roommate, over 8 others wanting to rent a room in my house. He wouldn't be able to comprehend it! The times I've mentioned Astrology he shakes his head in disbelief and laughter!

To those with a preponderance of Air (Libra/Gemini/Aquarius) and Earth (Taurus/Capricorn/Virgo) in their charts, which implies intellectuality (not intelligence/intuition), they're, naturally, going to be the most skeptical of Astrology, forever demanding proof, and scientific proof! And I'm not talking Sun signs, as your Sun sign can be just a small part of you!

And these same people, surprisingly, believe in God which can't be proved, scientifically, or otherwise!

[monumentus]

Originally Posted by tijlover

Proof that, perhaps, human resource personnel are using Astrology to screen candidates for jobs?

If you like - it would be a start. Since you have not evidenced any such thing it would be interesting to see what evidence you have for it. Of course what I mean is _not_ that you can find some guy down the road doing it - or a HR company somewhere in the lower Idaho. What I mean is can you show there is any significant % of the industry involved in it.

Show it not assert it I mean. This is - after all - the Great Debates area of the forum.

Originally Posted by tijlover

Think this one out! Let's be realistic! Word gets out that employers are secretly using Astrology to screen candidates for a job, you're looking at discrimination lawsuits! It would open up a big can of worms!

So - as expected - you are now giving excuses for why your evidence is not going to be forthcoming. I predicted in my post that - as with all conspiracy theories - the theory will be based not only around an air of "secrecy" but that said secrecy will be such that you will use it as an excuse for not evidencing the claim whatsoever.

So - unlike many using woo like astrology and fortune telling and the like - I at least made a prediction that came true.

The facts of the matter are A) you can not show this stuff to be accurate or have any efficacy or utility whatsoever and B) you can not show that any group of influence is using it to any statistically significant degree at all.

Originally Posted by tijlover

The times I've mentioned Astrology he shakes his head in disbelief and laughter!

That certainly is a warranted reaction in the face of baseless and unevidenced woo.

[eriko88]

Originally Posted by MyGoldenLife

What does it matter to you what individuals choose to do with their lives so long as it doesn't hurt YOU?

Because they told me to move here because it's my Moon line. And now when things are not so nice in this city, they tell me - "Oops, you have a Moon in Scorpio, avoid Moon lines, go to a Sun line...".

Doom and gloom is that I asked about relationships and as I have a Saturn opposition Venus they tell me to become a monk...

You make it sound as if you had consulted, not one, but more than one astrologer in your time. So where do you even really strand on this?

Love-hate
Love because AstroCartoGraphy so far is very much true judging by my traveling experiences.
Hate because it's too negative. Like if you have all those natal aspects it's like you somehow deserve hardships and people treating you like c*ap.

[phetaroi]

Eriko88: You never responded to my question in the second post in this thread.

Do you have some actual evidence that people, in general, are taking astrology more seriously.

Not you. People, in general.

[testing_waters]

it's like a fortune cookie. it says things that apply to everyone and people tend to project. voila! that and people are inherently uncomfortable with ambiguity and that is what we're all about right? making ourselves more comfortable. and we call that progress.

[Crashj007]

Originally Posted by eriko88

I had a chart reading done just for fun due to my mom being in astrology and what not. Lol the people that do those redings really like forcing their views on people.<>

You may find the Tarot more to your liking. Or Feng Shui?
Actually, the modern equivalent is DNA reading like 23 and Me which is just about as scientific as astrology.

[Troyfan]

For the same reason they're drawn to psychology.

[reed067]

Originally Posted by eriko88

The thing is I notice more and more people using astrology or psychics to guide their lives. Out of all woo practices I think the best would be positive affirmations - they do work in boosting one's confidence. But not so sure about Astrology -- it's very fatalistic, focusing on doom, gloom and hardships.

What's the difference between this and religion? Any religion.