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Old 11-07-2017, 10:17 AM
 
Location: London, U.K.
3,006 posts, read 3,862,887 times
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Basically there are three/four models of universal healthcare:

1. The Beveridge/NHS model: single payer insurance, public delivery of services.

2. Single payer insurance + private or mixed public/private delivery e.g. Canada, Taiwan.

3. Bismarck model: universal non profit private insurance/social insurance + private delivery of services. The German model, also used in Japan, Switzerland, Belgium and The Netherlands.

4. A hybrid between the single payer insurance model with optional supplemental top up insurance. This is basically the French system.

You need to pick one and go with it. All work, but all have their foibles. Though France apparently has the best system in the world by most measures.
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Old 11-07-2017, 04:11 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,469 posts, read 24,054,533 times
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Another example of price in health care.

Hearing aid cost per pair = $900-$1,700.

Mine recently went dead and all except the outer shell was rebuilt. Cost = $165 for one ear.
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Old 11-07-2017, 06:17 PM
 
50,489 posts, read 36,145,160 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
Another example of price in health care.

Hearing aid cost per pair = $900-$1,700.

Mine recently went dead and all except the outer shell was rebuilt. Cost = $165 for one ear.
Even frames for glasses. Why does what is basically a few pieces of plastic held together by small spring hinges cost $400 at an optomiestrist's office?

My migraine pills are $437 for 6 pills. I can't afford it. My insurance company stopped paying for it because the patent was supposed to expire January 2017, so they would only pay for the generic. Only they still haven't come out. I was wondering what is taking so long for the Generics to hit the market. Then I read an article about the Big Pharma, and one of the awful things they do which I was appalled to learn, was they pay off the companies who are supposed to make the generic version not to make it! It's called "Pay-for-Delay", and it's perfectly legal.

There was a group of 15 Democratic senators who out forth a bill in the spring to stop the practice, as well as allow imports from Canada and other countries and to allow Medicare to negotiate drug prices (https://www.franken.senate.gov/?p=press_release&id=3655) but it won't get anywhere with this big- business-loving, regulation-hating congress and white house we have now in control. The people who are really in control, the Sheldon Addelson's and other big donors who actually set our political agenda now thanks to Citizen's United, would never allow it.
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Old 11-07-2017, 06:36 PM
 
Location: near bears but at least no snakes
26,650 posts, read 28,563,001 times
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I like how in the UK everyone gets healthcare. I didn't realize that they can even get glasses. For free, they just get ordinary frames but they have the option of paying extra for designer frames.

Same with the rest of their health care. Everyone gets it and if you want something extra, you can top up with relatively inexpensive extra insurance.

I wish the selfish people in the US who are so resentful of having to chip in a little bit to help other Americans would stop thinking only of themselves. They should also remember that the insurance would be there for THEM too, and maybe they'll end up needing a lot more than they can even imagine.
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Old 11-07-2017, 06:57 PM
 
28,111 posts, read 63,536,638 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ocnjgirl View Post
I think it's just greed. I had outpatient back surgery last year at a local hospital. I was in at 6am and home around noon. The hospital bill for use of the room (not including the surgeon or anesthesiologist which were billed separately) was $64,000. Of course insurance doesn't pay that much, but if I hadn't had insurance that would have been my bill...WHY? Why does the nursing home I work in charge $10,000 a month or so? It is certainly not due to anyone's high pay, the majority of workers are in the $10/hour range, with only a few therapists and nurses and administrators who make higher salaries.

As long as health care is allowed to be corporate and privatized, and corporate people get to set whatever prices they want (like that asshat who bought the rights to EpiPen and raised it from a couple of hundred to several thousand, just because he could) costs are not going to be controllable, because politicians are loath to interfere with private business.

That to me is the biggest difference between health care now and 20 years ago. Hospitals and medical facilities used to be non-profit, or low profit. Now they are all part of giant conglomerates and like other giant conglomerates, are beholden first and foremost to their stockholders. Hospital heads who used to make $100,000 a year now can make ginormous bonuses for increasing profits, and that is never going to benefit the public because the only way to increase profits is to cut services or raise prices.

Only one correction... if you did not have insurance for your scheduled outpatient procedure you would have negotiated a non-insured cash pay fee and the bill could be 60% less... even more depending if your Surgeon is in your corner.
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Old 11-07-2017, 07:57 PM
 
3,278 posts, read 2,333,754 times
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We never neede Obamacare. Just get rid of the fraud, stop the illegals from getting any care whatsoever and you're done. That's all that needs to be done. It's simple.
But will never happen because the wussy folks in congress don't want to appear mean and stop the fraud and come across as mean if they stop the gravy train for the crook and illegals. What a shame. No other country in the world would allow this.
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Old 11-07-2017, 08:09 PM
 
Location: near bears but at least no snakes
26,650 posts, read 28,563,001 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trusso11783 View Post
We never neede Obamacare. Just get rid of the fraud, stop the illegals from getting any care whatsoever and you're done. That's all that needs to be done. It's simple.
But will never happen because the wussy folks in congress don't want to appear mean and stop the fraud and come across as mean if they stop the gravy train for the crook and illegals. What a shame. No other country in the world would allow this.
Disagree partly. We need something--whether it's an improved Obamacare or some other universal health care plan, all humans need access to medical care that they can afford.

The UK did have to crack down on immigration and we should too. No one I have heard of thinks illegals should get health care--they should get it in their own country, not ours. We do need better oversight of who gets health care because it's only for people who legally paid into the system. Otherwise the system collapses.
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Old 11-07-2017, 09:47 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,469 posts, read 24,054,533 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trusso11783 View Post
We never neede Obamacare. Just get rid of the fraud, stop the illegals from getting any care whatsoever and you're done. That's all that needs to be done. It's simple.
But will never happen because the wussy folks in congress don't want to appear mean and stop the fraud and come across as mean if they stop the gravy train for the crook and illegals. What a shame. No other country in the world would allow this.
The trouble is that it isn't simple.
The trouble is that too many people like you think it's simple.
And, another trouble is that it's easy to place blame on Congress, and they certainly deserve some of the blame, but that's just another substitute for real change.
Are illegal immigrants part of the problem? Sure. Not a huge part. But I think you just like tossing blame at minorities.

Did you ever spend much time traveling or living abroad. I have. The type of graft and bribery that goes on in some countries cannot even be imagined by most Americans.

Of course, you're welcome to run for Congress since you think you have all the answers.
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Old 11-07-2017, 10:08 PM
 
28,111 posts, read 63,536,638 times
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Working with a number of Doctors and hearing their views it strikes me as odd that almost to a last one they discouraged their kids from going into medicine...

It would seem counter-intuitive if the practice of medicine were as lucrative as many believe given what it takes to have a successful practice.

Our Chief of Staff was one who was outspoken... his son made the first year brokering commercial property than his father 40 years a Doc with a stellar reputation.

My question is just who will be providing Health Care in a single payer system?
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Old 11-07-2017, 10:50 PM
 
14,380 posts, read 14,207,248 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultrarunner View Post
Working with a number of Doctors and hearing their views it strikes me as odd that almost to a last one they discouraged their kids from going into medicine...

It would seem counter-intuitive if the practice of medicine were as lucrative as many believe given what it takes to have a successful practice.

Our Chief of Staff was one who was outspoken... his son made the first year brokering commercial property than his father 40 years a Doc with a stellar reputation.

My question is just who will be providing Health Care in a single payer system?
My father spent much of my childhood trying to discourage me from practicing law. He wasn't successful. Much of what you are describing is simply the result of parents wanting something better for their children than they had themselves. My neighbor is a family doctor and he is very enthusiastic about his work. He has a son he is encouraging to follow in his footsteps and he may have a daughter with a similar aptitude.

I think there are aspects of a medical practice that are very difficult. The time commitment. The hours spent away from family. The complexity of insurance billing.

Presently though, medical schools are saturated with applicants. A typical medical school has average students with a 3.5 GPA in hard science or better to pick from. When medical schools have a hard time attracting applicants, we'll know we have a problem. We don't have a problem right now and I don't imagine that moving towards universal health care will make it appreciably worse.

Canada, France, Germany, and Britain all have universal healthcare. You can't tell me that all of them have a doctor shortage.
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