Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Great Debates
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 01-10-2018, 10:02 AM
 
11,337 posts, read 10,981,366 times
Reputation: 14993

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Selen View Post
You didn’t say anything about regimes in your previous post. You labeled every single person who live in the middle east as irrational, intolerant mysticists. Here is your previous post.
Absolutely. The regimes are CHOSEN by the people who live under them. People are responsible for their leaders, and the actions of their leaders. To the degree that the Plumber agrees to live under the mystical irrational and oppressive President, and does nothing to fight him or resist him or replace him, he is complicit in the adventures of his President, and loses any pretense at innocence.


Muslim Americans, for example, are not complicit and do not fall under this judgment. They are secularized and normalized and operate under the principles of freedom, as do the rest of us.


But the theocracies of the Middle East are not exonerated, and the people who live under the despots are responsible for the despots.


If, say, the people of Syria were to overthrow their leaders and demand a Constitution that protects freedom and grants and protects private property rights, and expressed philosophical agreement with the principles of individual autonomy and primacy, then I would expect to form an alliance with them, and give them military aid to help protect them. REGARDLESS OF THEIR MUSLIM-MAJORITY STATUS. AND JUST LIKE ISRAEL. When that happens, I will celebrate the people of Syria, and will support my government supporting their government.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 01-10-2018, 10:18 AM
 
Location: Ankara, Turkey
400 posts, read 290,420 times
Reputation: 375
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Paolella View Post
Absolutely. The regimes are CHOSEN by the people who live under them. People are responsible for their leaders, and the actions of their leaders. To the degree that the Plumber agrees to live under the mystical irrational and oppressive President, and does nothing to fight him or resist him or replace him, he is complicit in the adventures of his President, and loses any pretense at innocence.


Muslim Americans, for example, are not complicit and do not fall under this judgment. They are secularized and normalized and operate under the principles of freedom, as do the rest of us.


But the theocracies of the Middle East are not exonerated, and the people who live under the despots are responsible for the despots.


If, say, the people of Syria were to overthrow their leaders and demand a Constitution that protects freedom and grants and protects private property rights, and expressed philosophical agreement with the principles of individual autonomy and primacy, then I would expect to form an alliance with them, and give them military aid to help protect them. REGARDLESS OF THEIR MUSLIM-MAJORITY STATUS. AND JUST LIKE ISRAEL. When that happens, I will celebrate the people of Syria, and will support my government supporting their government.
LOL I’m sure you would. You were just saying ”every single person” who live in the middle east were irrational intolerant mysticists. I wonder how do you think they will manage that? LOL
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-10-2018, 10:25 AM
 
11,337 posts, read 10,981,366 times
Reputation: 14993
Quote:
Originally Posted by Selen View Post
LOL I’m sure you would. You were just saying every single person who live in the middle east were irrational intolerant mysticists. I wonder how do you think they will manage that? LOL
They will manage that by utilizing REASON. They will have to throw off the yoke of irrationalism, just like we did, and embrace The Enlightenment. We got rid of our craziness. So, too, must they. When that happens, we can join in brotherhood and love. But not until then. What exists today cannot be accepted or condoned. Iran, and its clones, cannot be accepted or condoned.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-10-2018, 10:30 AM
 
Location: Ankara, Turkey
400 posts, read 290,420 times
Reputation: 375
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Paolella View Post
They will manage that by utilizing REASON. They will have to throw off the yoke of irrationalism, just like we did, and embrace The Enlightenment. We got rid of our craziness. So, too, must they. When that happens, we can join in brotherhood and love. But not until then. What exists today cannot be accepted or condoned. Iran, and its clones, cannot be accepted or condoned.
Oh really, I don’t think calling every single person who live in the middle east intolerant irrational mysticists just like you did, seem like brotherly love to me. In fact I believe there are other words in the dictionary for it. Like, racism, antisemitism, islamophobia, fanaticism etc. These words explain that sort of world view.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-10-2018, 10:44 AM
 
11,337 posts, read 10,981,366 times
Reputation: 14993
Quote:
Originally Posted by Selen View Post
Oh really, I don’t think calling every single person who live in the middle east intolerant irrational mysticists just like you did, seem like brotherly love to me. In fact I believe there are other words in the dictionary for it. Like, racism, antisemitism, islamophobia, fanaticism etc. These words explain that sort of world view.
I disagree with your evaluation but think you should consider attending the University of California Berkeley. Do you see why?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-10-2018, 10:46 AM
 
11,337 posts, read 10,981,366 times
Reputation: 14993
And perhaps we see a glimmer of hope in Iran, where the people may be in the process of overturning their mystical leaders. Maybe one day we will look back at these protests and see them as the great turning point.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-10-2018, 11:11 AM
 
Location: Falls Church, Fairfax County
5,162 posts, read 4,459,848 times
Reputation: 6336
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Paolella View Post
What all of this has to do with Israel is that Israel is the single, solitary, sole, sane country in a region of insanity, sectarian hatred, theocracy, fundamentalism, tyranny, and abuse of populations on a mass basis. Israel is like us in a lot of ways, and totally unlike an Iran, thankfully. It only makes sense for us to be an ally with a country that shares most of our values.
What region is that? Indonesia? LOL



Also Jordan, Oman, Dubai are all stable and safe. We could work with these countries as well. From your comments you seem to have something against Muslims, which is your right, but I do not think it is the basis to spend over $100 billion dollars in one country.

Also in over 5 decades Israel does not seem to be making the region safer, as a matter of fact the region seems to be less stable than any other time in recent history. We certainly do not seem to be getting our monies worth.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Paolella View Post
And being an ally requires us to supply military aid
Wait? What? We are their ally perhaps they can start sending us TRILLIONS of dollars in military aid if that is a requirement?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Paolella View Post
so that the single, sane, country in an insane region can remain in existence.
Honestly I am not sure that the US should be taking money from its citizens to provide so people elsewhere can live the way they wish....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Paolella View Post
They are surrounded by wolves who would execute them in a second, if they had the power. The same wolves who would destroy Western culture, given the chance. We are not going to give them that chance. And part of that is making sure we have a military ally that expands our own military capabilities in the region.
Yeah, this is bordering on bigotry. It is your opinion but I disagree with it and I also do not see what makes them any better.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Paolella View Post
So I argue that it is morally correct to be an ally of Israel
Being an ally does not mean we owe them billions of dollars a year.....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Paolella View Post
, a secular western-style rational state. And it is pragmatically correct to help them to remain strong with military aid.
They have been caught spying on us in the past and several people in this thread have made it seem as if they are stronger and more intelligent than the US. Perhaps they could give us aid?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Paolella View Post
WE ARE GIVING IT TO OURSELVES. WE ARE DEFENDING OURSELVES.
I am sure we could get a better bang for our buck if we put billions into the US. To me it just seems like we are paying a few countries to manufacture or continue conflict.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Paolella View Post
We should be thankful they are there because without Israel, the region is a hopeless morass of misery, mysticism, tyranny, authoritarianism, and theocratic hell.
Jordan, Oman, Dubai, the UAE.......
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-10-2018, 11:13 AM
 
Location: Falls Church, Fairfax County
5,162 posts, read 4,459,848 times
Reputation: 6336
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Paolella View Post
And perhaps we see a glimmer of hope in Iran, where the people may be in the process of overturning their mystical leaders. Maybe one day we will look back at these protests and see them as the great turning point.
But this is not Israel doing this....this is the Iranian people.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-10-2018, 11:14 AM
 
Location: Falls Church, Fairfax County
5,162 posts, read 4,459,848 times
Reputation: 6336
Quote:
Originally Posted by Selen View Post
LOL I’m sure you would. You were just saying ”every single person” who live in the middle east were irrational intolerant mysticists. I wonder how do you think they will manage that? LOL
I think we know who the irrational and intolerant mystacist is in this thread.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-10-2018, 11:14 AM
 
23,177 posts, read 12,074,962 times
Reputation: 29347
Quote:
Originally Posted by Selen View Post
Well, I suppose I will have to repeat the same question I asked the other poster to you.

Do you even realize or have a clue that by generalizing 1.6 billion muslims like that, you have no difference to the isis fanatics in your way of thinking?
And do you realize there is a big difference between "generalizing" and chopping off heads? It's not the views that make ISIS a threat, it's their actions taken to support them that are the problem.

Two people can look at each other and think "I hate you, I want you dead!". One turns away and goes back to work. The other pulls a gun and empties it in the other's back. And you see them as the same?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Great Debates

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top