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So right now white folks are considered the majority.minoritys are offered special treatment for many things. Education and job points and bank loans and other things to help them out.
So, I keep hearing how Hispanics will be the majority in the future with rising birth rates. How many people think whites being a minority well get any special treatment?
I say this all in jest since I don't see any kind of special treatment coming my way.We all live in a strange world where people are treated differently. Funny since I consider us all equal under our Constitution.
Going back to the original premise of this thread, it seems as if the OP is saying that minorities -- whichever ones you want to talk about -- have all these benefits, and white people should deserve these benefits, too.
I worked in a school that was a very mixed community from VERY rich to quite poor...and very poor just a couple of miles away.
A friend bought half of a duplex (and later bought the other half). It was definitely a fixer-upper. It had one medium sized bedroom, one bedroom that could only fit a single twin bed, and a small somewhat finished bedroom (if you wanna call a cement floor and cheap wood paneling finished). Before he bought it, 16 immigrant Latinos had been living there.
As a principal, I sometimes visited poor Black students and their families in our school. Usually 2 bedroom apartments that held a family of 4 or 5. Many of them were on various forms of welfare (such as food stamps) or the father worked 2 jobs and the mother 1 job.
A couple of miles away were some old apartments where many Latinos lived. I mean MANY Latinos. Poor, many out of work or doing hard labor. Conditions were hardly what anyone would describe as good.
And by the way, just for the record, I've seen white trash trailer parks that are just as bad.
I just don't understand what some of you are jealous of. If you wanna live like them, go ahead. I'm sure you can work yourself down to the poverty level and get all those freebies if you really try hard.
As a non-white person watching this country, I find the whole race situation a farce. However, just about every western nation is facing the same problems. The NFL kneeling situation is the perfect example, the NFL owners and leader has to accommodate to the player protestors because they depend on the players to make money.
All of the Western countries now must present a kinder and friendlier stance towards immigrants no matter what those immigrants harbor. This is why Donald Trump openly speaks to the silent majority. Why should the majority of the people who don't benefit from having large amounts of immigrant workers should play along and invite them to our country and provide them the same entitlements.
The rising power in the Far East, India, China, Japan they do not welcome foreigners and have high sense of national pride. In America, any sense of national pride is labeled as white supremacy.
India has a exploding population and an extremely poor underclass. Not to mention high incidence of rape.
For all the complaints people have about an overreaching federal government China is the shining example of this. Media censorship, forced confiscation intellectual property and sweatshop like working conditions. and that's just the tip of the iceberg.
Japan hasn't been the same since the 1990's recession. It is now seeing a rise in homelessness and child poverty. Not to mention a rapidly aging population.
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I know I'll surprise a lot of people by saying this, but...
I'm actually torn by this. I do have to agree that income-poverty based programs are less likely to fuel racial antagonism than ethnic-based ones. That's not to say I'm against scholarships for people who are at least half-Italian or half-Irish or half-Swedish or what-not...(yes, that includes half- what are considered today as minorities). Yet, it's undeniable that there's still a lot of prejudice against minorities - even after accounting for socio-economic status of the individuals. Plus, even today, society has yet to grow past the effects of slavery (Black Americans) and nearly-full genocide (Native Americans). Hispanics in many areas of the nation (certainly in Texas) also suffered from legally-enforced segregation.
So today's poor whites deserve aid just as much as poor minorities. Yet, for all the social discrimination of whites from poor backgrounds (especially ones with heavy accents often pegged as "ignorant"), minorities still cannot hide their appearance even if they "talk like upper middle class suburban whites".
Unfortunately, just because the law changed doesn't mean the attitudes that gave rise to the law die alongside it. It simply takes generations to purge this attitude from the culture and the system. Anybody with two eyes can see that minorities are in a better social position than 50 years ago, and even 30 years ago - even if poverty is still a persistent problem. Yet, there are still stubborn pockets of racism in our society, fueled by assuming that just because "a lot of them act like 'that'" means that most will act like 'that'.
So it's a terrible dilemma: acknowledge through deeds the minority experience and we risk trivializing poor whites. Treat poor of all races and ethnicities the same and we trivialize the minority experience.
If anybody has a way out of this dilemma, there's literally $1 million awaiting you in Oslo.
I know I'll surprise a lot of people by saying this, but...
I'm actually torn by this. I do have to agree that income-poverty based programs are less likely to fuel racial antagonism than ethnic-based ones. That's not to say I'm against scholarships for people who are at least half-Italian or half-Irish or half-Swedish or what-not...(yes, that includes half- what are considered today as minorities). Yet, it's undeniable that there's still a lot of prejudice against minorities - even after accounting for socio-economic status of the individuals. Plus, even today, society has yet to grow past the effects of slavery (Black Americans) and nearly-full genocide (Native Americans). Hispanics in many areas of the nation (certainly in Texas) also suffered from legally-enforced segregation.
So today's poor whites deserve aid just as much as poor minorities. Yet, for all the social discrimination of whites from poor backgrounds (especially ones with heavy accents often pegged as "ignorant"), minorities still cannot hide their appearance even if they "talk like upper middle class suburban whites".
Unfortunately, just because the law changed doesn't mean the attitudes that gave rise to the law die alongside it. It simply takes generations to purge this attitude from the culture and the system. Anybody with two eyes can see that minorities are in a better social position than 50 years ago, and even 30 years ago - even if poverty is still a persistent problem. Yet, there are still stubborn pockets of racism in our society, fueled by assuming that just because "a lot of them act like 'that'" means that most will act like 'that'.
So it's a terrible dilemma: acknowledge through deeds the minority experience and we risk trivializing poor whites. Treat poor of all races and ethnicities the same and we trivialize the minority experience.
If anybody has a way out of this dilemma, there's literally $1 million awaiting you in Oslo.
An excellent post.
One of the problems with Americans in general, and especially here on City-Data, is that all too many think the problems being discussed have an easy answer. They don't. If they did, they wouldn't be problems. Nice to see a poster who realizes that.
I don't comment much anymore.....because really.....what's the point? People are not having eureka moments or epiphany of new understanding from these exchanges.
Here are my thoughts.
# There is a REASON for EVERYTHING. Something caused things to be the way they are in terms of "equality".
# If you don't respect the influence of the past on the present, game over. You will never understand or draw correct conclusions about the present, let alone the future.
# Believing that blacks have all the advantages, while whites still dominate nearly everything except the NBA and NFL, is a claim of white superiority for how could blacks have all the advantages and those advantages not translate to black disproportionate control of things?
# No one will see themselves or others as racist when they see the negative racial views as TRUTHS. If people see it as TRUE/self evident that blacks are less intelligent, lazier and more irresponsible than whites, then exposing such will not be seen as racism. Ergo, many people do not see negative views or comments about blacks are racist, but fact based
# If one assumes that the races are born inherently equal in capacities to produce economic success, yet ,after centuries in the country their outcomes are significantly unequal, then obviously the races were treated differently enough to create the different outcomes. Ergo, you cannot produce an inequality....from an equality where each side is treated the same over time. The explanation for inequality, therefore, is either the entities were not inherently equal or the entities were treated differently. Racism is gleaned by arguing the former and or....simply rejecting the latter as an explanation, as its a binary option.
# Conservative reasoning conserves, if not promotes, white supremacy.
# There should be policies for descendants of enslaved Americans, which is not a race based policy. Its open to all those of different races who ancestors were chattel slaves in America and who were brought to this country not of their free will. Note that African immigrants do better than African Americans because they do not suffer the psychological and cultural damage to the same degree, despite sharing the same race...but even more so.
# Studies show that even within class....whites are given preference in the general society, over blacks.
# There is no one definition of racism that everyone is working from.....making discussion of the topic meaningless.
# Demonstrating or arguing that YOU are not racist is NOT debunking the claims of the general existing of racism in this society.
# Your anecdotal experience and circle of friends is NOT likely a microcosm for all of America. It proves or disproves nothing about the whole. Fallacy of composition.
# Racism has never required 100% participation from all whites to be effective. Ergo, proving or noting that not all whites are racist adds nothing.
# Being tired of hearing something argued has no relationship to the validity of what is being argued or claimed.
# Saying that slavery ended 150 years ago, as a means to discredit claims concerning the damage caused by racism, is to suggest that the definition of racism is "slavery".
# Saying that others went through oppression too, yet are doing much better can only be true if the others are superior. If they are not naturally superior, then they did not experience the same level of obstruction and that is why they are doing better.
# People generally do not like to talk about racism because most Americans are white.....and the historical evidence is overwhelmingly indicting to that race. Ergo, its hard to win a debate with so much historical evidence, without being able to claim explicitly that inequality is the result of inferiority.....and not racism.
Last edited by Indentured Servant; 01-15-2018 at 03:30 PM..
I don't comment much anymore.....because really.....what's the point? People are not having eureka moments or epiphany of new understanding from these exchanges.
Here are my thoughts.
# There is a REASON for EVERYTHING. Something caused things to be the way they are in terms of "equality".
# If you don't respect the influence of the past on the present, game over. You will never understand or draw correct conclusions about the present, let alone the future.
# Believing that blacks have all the advantages, while whites still dominate nearly everything except the NBA and NFL, is a claim of white superiority for how could blacks have all the advantages and those advantages not translate to black disproportionate control of things?
# No one will see themselves or others as racist when they see the negative racial views as TRUTHS. If people see it as TRUE/self evident that blacks are less intelligent, lazier and more irresponsible than whites, then exposing such will not be seen as racism. Ergo, many people do not see negative views or comments about blacks are racist, but fact based
# If one assumes that the races are born inherently equal in capacities to produce economic success, yet ,after centuries in the country their outcomes are significantly unequal, then obviously the races were treated differently enough to create the different outcomes. Ergo, you cannot produce an inequality....from an equality where each side is treated the same over time. The explanation for inequality, therefore, is either the entities were not inherently equal or the entities were treated differently. Racism is gleaned by arguing the former and or....simply rejecting the latter as an explanation, as its a binary option.
# Conservative reasoning conserves, if not promotes, white supremacy.
# There should be policies for descendants of enslaved Americans, which is not a race based policy. Its open to all those of different races who ancestors were chattel slaves in America and who were brought to this country not of their free will. Note that African immigrants do better than African Americans because they do not suffer the psychological and cultural damage to the same degree, despite sharing the same race...but even more so.
# Studies show that even within class....whites are given preference in the general society, over blacks.
# There is no one definition of racism that everyone is working from.....making discussion of the topic meaningless.
# Demonstrating or arguing that YOUR not racist is NOT debunking the claims of the general existing of racism in this society.
# Your anecdotal experience and circle of friends is NOT likely a microcosm for all of America. It proves or disproves nothing about the whole. Fallacy of composition.
# Racism has never required 100% participation from all whites to be effective. Ergo, proving or noting that not all whites are racist adds nothing.
# Being tired of hearing something argued has no relationship to the validity of what is being argued or claimed.
# Saying that slavery ended 150 years ago, as a means to discredit claims concerning the damage caused by racism, is to suggest that the definition of racism is "slavery".
# Saying that others went through oppression too, yet are doing much better can only be true if the others are superior. If they are not naturally superior, then they did not experience the same level of obstruction and that is why they are doing better.
One of the more thoughtful posts in the thread.
I just do want to mention that while anecdotal experiences are usually not a microcosm for all of America, anecdotal experiences still lend detail to the fabric and are of value. Anecdotal experiences are human, data is not.
But still, you made excellent points in your post.
I just do want to mention that while anecdotal experiences are usually not a microcosm for all of America, anecdotal experiences still lend detail to the fabric and are of value. Anecdotal experiences are human, data is not.
But still, you made excellent points in your post.
Yes....they have value....but not much value in regards to the whole. There are 310 million people in the country. A persons experiences touch what percentage of that 310 million? .0001? People usually use anecdotal experiences to make a point or to discredit a point. That is really not sufficient evidence to support or discredit a claim about American in general.
On the left, there is also this vauge notion of calling out privilege and celebrating marginalized identities. It's certainly true that on average, all else being equal, a woman or a minority has to worker harder/overcome more obsticals to obtain what a white male has. But its also true, class background plays a big role. Even a straight white man from a poor/working class background has to work harder than someone from an upper middle class/wealthy background.
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Do they really, though?
Woman are hired 2 to 1 over men for faculty STEM jobs. Probably not enough data to make a solid conclusion, but something tells me that the leftist narrative is false. And let's be honest, there's NOT a bunch of evil white men running around telling 17 year old girls not to major in STEM..It's just not happening, and if you think it is, well, we're just never going to agree on anything.
Woman are hired 2 to 1 over men for faculty STEM jobs. Probably not enough data to make a solid conclusion, but something tells me that the leftist narrative is false. And let's be honest, there's NOT a bunch of evil white men running around telling 17 year old girls not to major in STEM..It's just not happening, and if you think it is, well, we're just never going to agree on anything.
"a woman or a minority has to worker harder/overcome more obstacles to obtain what a white male has." Now I'd like to see the data on this. How exactly do you quantify 'hard work'?
US Census 2010- Asian median household income: $78,000. White median household income: $62,000.
So based on this data, white people, on average, have to work harder and overcome more obstacles than Asian American minorities? Oops
Last edited by Jame22; 01-16-2018 at 02:50 PM..
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