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Old 02-22-2018, 11:18 AM
 
Location: The Ozone Layer, apparently...
4,005 posts, read 2,065,880 times
Reputation: 7714

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I would just take a moment to point out that we already have violent criminals and mentally ill people covered by law for not being able to buy sell or possess guns. Among other laws, The Brady Act handles that.

Where is the enforcement?

Law abiding citizens should not have their rights impeded. If a police officer can run a preliminary check on me using my ID, a gun dealer should be able to as well.

I live in a city where I cant own a gun, and don't. I can, but its not worth the time and expense to be able to. NYC has the Sullivan Law, and in my opinion needs it. Does this mean we have no illegal guns on the street? Hardly.

If I ever move back out into America again, I would like to be able to arm myself. I don't see myself effectively begging a criminal to wait for the local sheriff to get out to my place and protect me.

 
Old 02-22-2018, 11:20 AM
 
28,122 posts, read 12,483,538 times
Reputation: 15331
Quote:
Originally Posted by ComeCloser View Post
Let's say you are correct. What about it? Obviously there aren't 10s of 1000s of legal owners running around terrorizing their fellow citizens with them. Even the nut jobs don't know, unless they read this discussion, lol.

But, as I said, semi-automatic weapons are dangerous, to their owner/user. They jam and a lot of shooting accidents happen due to malfunction. One made in 1986 a criminal might be proud to wield, but I wouldn't touch it.
If anything I think it shows how responsible owners of these guns are. Ak47s are used in many crimes, but not as much as 9mm handguns or shotguns, so..

Im not sure why you think most would be 1986 or older, again, just because there is a law against 1986 and newer, does not mean, they are not here...they ARE the most mass produced gun in the world, Im sure there are PLENTY of newer models available.
 
Old 02-22-2018, 11:28 AM
 
Location: The Ozone Layer, apparently...
4,005 posts, read 2,065,880 times
Reputation: 7714
Quote:
Originally Posted by rstevens62 View Post
If anything I think it shows how responsible owners of these guns are. Ak47s are used in many crimes, but not as much as 9mm handguns or shotguns, so..

Im not sure why you think most would be 1986 or older, again, just because there is a law against 1986 and newer, does not mean, they are not here...they ARE the most mass produced gun in the world, Im sure there are PLENTY of newer models available.
I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure they are not legally available. The older AK's were grandfathered in when the law regarding their dual use changed.

Do people want to go back to a time and place where only the King and his nobles could bear arms? I hope not. Its truly a unique privilege in the world, to be allowed to protect yourself.

And I agree. Most non-criminal gun owners are responsible with their guns.
 
Old 02-22-2018, 11:36 AM
 
Location: The Ozone Layer, apparently...
4,005 posts, read 2,065,880 times
Reputation: 7714
Quote:
Originally Posted by Retired in Illinois View Post
This citizen is flabbergasted at how easy it is to buy an AR-15 in his home state. Many more states are just as easy.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=qo5sMfrrzAs

Is this what you want to happen??
No, I don't want to watch people, hopefully with good intentions, go off half-cocked and make fools of themselves. An AR15 is NOT an assault rifle.

For a good debate, OP, you should edit your first post, or ask a mod to do so as to reflect that truth.
 
Old 02-22-2018, 11:54 AM
 
Location: Billings, MT
9,885 posts, read 10,920,095 times
Reputation: 14180
BUT...BUT...BUT...
The AR-15 (Assault Rifle, 15th version) is black, ugly, scary, military looking, high powered, and carries a huge magazine! It exists primarily in the mind of anti-gun folks.
However, the ARmalite Model 15 rifle is a black, ugly, scary looking, .22 caliber (on steroids), civilian rifle that was adopted by the military many years ago, then converted to select fire, making it a true "Assault Weapon". It may or may not have a high capacity magazine.
Personally, I would much rather have an AR-7 Explorer.
However, an AR-5 would be great, too!
 
Old 02-22-2018, 12:19 PM
 
375 posts, read 606,100 times
Reputation: 576
The guy in the video is afraid for his kids. That is normal. Maybe that is combined with a little guilt that he can't really do anything about it. So I went to his YouTube channel to find out what this guy is all about.
First - He has disabled comments. No debate here. It's just him and his opinions. Lots of stuff about the middle east,Muslims, immigrants, etc yada yada.
Nope - this guy has an agenda. Simple as that.

Guns are a collateral issue - not the cause of the tragedy in Florida. The perp was obviously a disturbed individual. It appears that some who could do something before this occurred were aware of this individual but did nothing or little about it.

Maybe we should direct our attention toward mental health and government efficiency. The founding fathers put the right to bear arms right up there below free speech for a reason.

"Retired in Illinois" ??
Wasn't it YOUR Governor Rahm Emmanual that said " Never to let a good tragedy go to waste"?

Illinois? -- Aren't guns mostly banned there?
Strange.
Have you looked at the weekly gun slaughter statistics in Chicago recently?
Maybe you should clean up your state first and give us an example of the effectiveness of gun laws in Illinois before you tell the rest of us how to regulate our states.
JMO
 
Old 02-22-2018, 12:24 PM
 
8,228 posts, read 14,176,244 times
Reputation: 11226
In Ohio you just walk in a store and buy a gun (don't know about AR's). No registration or anything. Unless something has changed in the last 6 years.
 
Old 02-22-2018, 12:34 PM
 
Location: San Diego
50,125 posts, read 46,734,976 times
Reputation: 33962
Quote:
Originally Posted by markg91359 View Post
This is the problem. I should say people who think like you are the problem.

The Second Amendment gives us a right to keep and bear arms. That right has been interpreted by the Supreme Court in the Heller case as giving individuals the right to keep and bear arms. However, that very decision makes it clear that states have the right to regulate keeping and bearing arms.

Those who doubt this should review what the Supreme Court did earlier this week. It refused to hear the appeal of a case from California where a long waiting period on the purchase of firearms is in place. The court is emphasizing that under Heller states may indeed impose waiting periods and other restrictions on the purchase of firearms.


https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/20/u...purchases.html

When the Founding Fathers framed the Constitution the only guns in existence were single shot flintlock muskets and pistols. I suspect if they had known that by 1900, technology would have progressed to the point of semi-automatic and fully automatic rifles the Second Amendment might be written a bit differently.

Put simply, if states want to regulate the usage of certain types of arms it would fall within the Heller decision and the Second Amendment.

Let's be a bit logical here. If we carry the Second Amendment out literally we cannot constitutionally prevent eight year olds' or those with a criminal record from purchasing assault rifles. This doesn't fly and anyone with an IQ above 72 knows it.

Even though an individual right to bear arms exists, it is like everything else. It is subject to some qualification. The same is true of free speech rights, freedom of the press, and even freedom of religion. Gun rights are no more important than these.
Semi auto rifles were available back then. How'd you miss that on the other million threads?
 
Old 02-22-2018, 12:38 PM
 
Location: San Diego
50,125 posts, read 46,734,976 times
Reputation: 33962
Quote:
Originally Posted by Giesela View Post
In Ohio you just walk in a store and buy a gun (don't know about AR's). No registration or anything. Unless something has changed in the last 6 years.
Looks licensed gun store do a bgc.
 
Old 02-22-2018, 12:54 PM
 
Location: Saint John, IN
11,583 posts, read 6,691,932 times
Reputation: 14786
Geez, another gun thread!


If one REALLY wants a gun all they have to do is go into the inner city (such as Chicago) and buy one from some gang member off the street. Most "criminals" don't buy them legally!
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