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It would appear some of us have different definitions of suburb. When are you out of the city? How far from the center... Some older cities have little new development and the surrounding areas are actually small towns.
It would appear some of us have different definitions of suburb.
The dividing factor can be as much a difference of form as of being part of a major "city proper."
I've lived in "suburbs" that do not fit the common idea of what a "suburb" is. Like River Rouge, Michigan, just outside southwest Detroit, is set up in a similar street grid that's somewhat interconnected, and if it weren't for a sign and a somewhat less rundown built environment you wouldn't know you left the city of Detroit.
I've also lived in and seen extensively the outer portions of the Houston city limits, much of which is wide, long blocks, subdivisions, shopping strips, parking lots. Built for cars. A lot of it was suburban development in every sense in the 1960s-70s and then was annexed as the city went looking for its departed tax base. Houston had that option while Detroit did not, in large part due to the difference in laws concerning annexation in Texas vs. Michigan. But around Houston people will talk about these areas in an "inner city" context.
There's also the "urbanity" vs. "sprawl" question. I personally define "sprawl" as development for cars first and people second. This is where the separation really is for me. It's quite a leap to think of River Rouge as being anything like, say, Cary, N.C. any more than I can think of Kingwood or Clear Lake in Houston city limits as any sort of city center.
Because many suburbs are boring and dull and sleepy and uninspired and boring and did I say boring?
I didn't mind suburbia as much before and I wouldnt mind a suburb if it was at least a little interesting, charming and with some history but many suburbs grew post WWII in a time where mass produced sterility began to take form and that doesnt appeal to me. Also.... theres plenty of residential areas in cities that offer great things suburbs offer while still being in the city. To be fair when I was younger I thought a "suburb" was any part of a city where its mostly houses and now I realise its a seperate city all entirely.
I should state that I actually like small town living, if its a nice town. I just love a sense of community, not the anti-social untied nature of many suburbs. And small towns and urban neighbourhoods (that arent gentrified) are the best for that. I love knowing the local butcher, baker, barber, florist and how everyone knows everyone, though I dont like the gossip and cities are better about that.
Also, stripmalls suck. Suburbs have stripmalls up the a$$h****!
My experience, a lot of 'burb-bashing is done by childless hipsters rejecting where they come from. They don't want to appear like naive suburbanites. And they're not invested in public schooling.
Most people with kids appreciate the saner school districts of the suburbs. That's a concern that seems quaint to ppl who are focused on their vinyl collections..
I am not a hipster, and I want 4 kids. Still dont wanna live in the suburbs. I live in Minnesota, theres not a lot of crime except a few areas in north and south Minneapolis. Schools are fantastic, no reason to go to Edina to send my kids to schools with all the other preppy cake-eaters, plenty of good schools in the cities. Maybe, just maybe not all cities are crime ridden crapholes with terrible schools? Some are, but I avoid those places like the plague. (I mean I kinda grew up in one.. Miami)
Actually in Philadelphia many of its neighborhood are not trendy at all but are primarily middle class and/or working class. Many of these places are ethnic in nature and home to descendants of immigrants from decades ago. Also they are home to the city's police and firemen.
Thats how my 'hood is. Very blue collar, mostly white and black. Tons of people are of German, Polish, Hungarian, Scandinavian and Irish descent. Lots of European cultural influence. Lots of wealthier areas too just down the road. Not a lot of crime but the occasional tweaker and alcoholic. Every one knows everyone pretty much but people dont pry into your private lives either. I think its fantastic! And guess what... pretty residential. You dont need suburbs to have a nice big house.
Corporations love to have people densely packed in cities. It's good for profits.
Politicians also love to pack people in cities, easy to control , tax them to death with all sorts of taxes and fees. Easy to restrict freedoms
Thats how my 'hood is. Very blue collar, mostly white and black. Tons of people are of German, Polish, Hungarian, Scandinavian and Irish descent. Lots of European cultural influence. Lots of wealthier areas too just down the road. Not a lot of crime but the occasional tweaker and alcoholic. Every one knows everyone pretty much but people dont pry into your private lives either. I think its fantastic! And guess what... pretty residential. You dont need suburbs to have a nice big house.
Shhh... don't tell the hipsters, they will want it.
My parents grew up in a working class urban/residential area, and it was NICE. Everyone took such pride in their homes, and there was a great downtown nearby. Then in the 60s/70s it went all to hell. Then it improved a bit in the 1990s. Now they want to gentrify it. The original immigrant ethnic quality has mostly been lost, although some stragglers remain. Gentrification will be the final nail for any remaining European ethnic influence.
- Suburbs allow for a high quality of life that even moderate-income people can afford. Believe it or not, there's plenty of affordable and reasonably-nice suburban areas outside of most cities (if you settle for an "okay" school system as opposed to a top-notch one).
Define "better" quality of life. If quality of life means big houses, yard, and quiet to you, then you are correct. If it means choice of restaurants, nightlife, top flight entertainment, cultural arts, then you are wrong.
If that means isolation and privacy, perhaps that is true in the suburbs. But then even that, it depends. I know people who live in towns where the gossip is so rampant about everything. You can't sneeze without the whole town talking about it. Maybe some people prefer the anonymity it large city life. It really boils down to ones priorities.
Also a few myths cited in this thread. Better schools. SOME suburbs have better schools. OTHERS have terrible schools. SOME suburbs are safer, but many mistake number of crimes with per capita. If you have a town of 500 people and there are 2 murders in one year, that is statistically more crime ridden than any city.
Define "better" quality of life. If quality of life means big houses, yard, and quiet to you, then you are correct. If it means choice of restaurants, nightlife, top flight entertainment, cultural arts, then you are wrong.
Or it might mean a view of the stars at night in the wide open, away from all the lights and traffic. To them, everything not country is "city."
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