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Old 03-23-2018, 05:02 PM
 
17,534 posts, read 13,324,825 times
Reputation: 32980

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jfre81 View Post
This. If they ever did succeed in "getting drugs off the streets" the gravy train of federal law enforcement grants and civil asset forfeitures would grind to a screeching halt. All the drug-warriors would have to find a job. Which is why nobody is interested in pursuing policies that actually solve the problem.
I only know about the medical side and the failure to stop this problem from the opium dens till today.

I really dont believe in the "gravy train"
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Old 03-23-2018, 05:06 PM
 
423 posts, read 288,658 times
Reputation: 1389
Quote:
Originally Posted by mike1003 View Post
1st, one death is too many, I do not want to minimize this problem. Before you bang on me, I am a pharmacist and fully understand the issues involved in "the drug epidemic"

I want to throw 3 numbers at you. (why 3? to keep things in a simple perspective for a very complicated issue)

1) Drug overdose deaths in the US +/-50,000 a year (https://www.drugabuse.gov/related-to...se-death-rates)

2) Lung cancer deaths in the US +/-222,500 a year (https://www.cancer.net/cancer-types/...ell/statistics ) I just picked one cancer, too many to list ( You can find statistics here: https://www.cancer.net/cancer-types )

3) Heart disease deaths in the US +/- 610,000 That is 1 in 4 of all deaths in the US (https://www.cdc.gov/heartdisease/facts.htm )

I'm not including auto deaths, other diseases, suicides, etc

Before you bang on me again, I know that there is a major problem with over prescribing opioids and other meds.

Cost estimates: The NIH currently spends about $116 million a year on opioid use disorder research, mostly through the National Institute on Drug Abuse, one of the NIH’s 27 institutes and centers. To accelerate the agency’s various research initiatives, Collins says, the NIH would need four or five times the current spending—or roughly $500 million a year. (The NIH’s annual budget is set by Congress, although the organization’s directors then decide what priorities to fund within their budget.) ( Opioid Crisis: What Experts Say It Would Cost to Fix It | Money )

Why the Hell is our government throwing so much money at a problem that is for the most part self induced? Isn't this money better spent on cancer, heart disease and other diseases that plague mankind?

If someone wants to kill him, or herself, that's their problem, not mine.

Thoughts?
^^^Like^^^ Its not a disease, its a choice. Those who first stuck a needle in their arm were not addicted. But they KNEW it was addictive then decided to do it anyway. Then they steal and rob from people who made good choices and have a life. I think when I see a drug OD on the news, what I think is good riddance. Now with ObamaCare the drug rehab places are pushing treatment you and I pay for, yet most inpatients back slide again and again.
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Old 03-23-2018, 05:22 PM
 
Location: ✶✶✶✶
15,216 posts, read 30,545,629 times
Reputation: 10851
Quote:
Originally Posted by mike1003 View Post
I really dont believe in the "gravy train"
In 1984, legislation was passed so that local law enforcement agencies can use the civil courts to seize property from drug suspects, with the burden of proof on them to prove they were not purchased with drug money.

Note that this is entirely independent of whether those suspects were charged in criminal court. Civil court is a different world. There is no "guilty until proven innocent." It's based on a preponderance of evidence and under that standard, law enforcement agencies have a lot of leverage. It becomes a grab of cash, firearms, vehicles and other firearms. It promotes outright falsification of charges through planting evidence. It's where the drug war truly turned corrupt.

But, if you don't believe in it, it must not be.
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Old 03-23-2018, 05:28 PM
 
423 posts, read 288,658 times
Reputation: 1389
Law enforcement is taking back stuff that was STOLEN.
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Old 03-23-2018, 05:32 PM
 
Location: ✶✶✶✶
15,216 posts, read 30,545,629 times
Reputation: 10851
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackberryMerlot View Post
Law enforcement is taking back stuff that was STOLEN.
The main problem with your rationale here is thefts are proven in criminal court, beyond shadow of reasonable doubt.

They have also used this to go after the property of medical cannabis providers working under state law.
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Old 03-23-2018, 06:07 PM
 
24,557 posts, read 18,230,382 times
Reputation: 40260
Jeez. Anybody can get addicted to opiates. A 7 or 8 day Rx can do it. Until the FDA cracked down on physicians, that was basic lazy medicine for anybody who walked in the office with something like chronic back pain. It spans all socioeconomic classes but if you work hourly and don't get paid if you don't work, you're more prone to use pain killers if you have a pain management problem so you can pay your bills.
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Old 03-23-2018, 06:59 PM
 
13,754 posts, read 13,308,274 times
Reputation: 26025
Yes, we're sheep. We follow blindly, stupidly and that means peer pressure is a powerful thing. Lemmings, whatever.

Stop the evil people who bring the crap in. The ones making millions off the deaths of our kids.
China is a huge fentanyl supplier.

Burn the dealers.
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Old 03-23-2018, 07:21 PM
 
Location: In the middle between the sun and moon
534 posts, read 488,768 times
Reputation: 2081
Quote:
Originally Posted by tijlover View Post
Let's get down to the source of drug usage, why people turn to drugs/spirits in the first place, in a spiritually bankrupt country like the U.S.

Many unemployed or underemployed people today have given up hope, they're in despair, extremely depressed, suicidal, so let's tackle that problem and then the drug usage will abate on its own.
This is very insightful. Our social structure is set up to mostly reward and glorify people who either have money, or can make someone else money in some way. If someone doesn't have the talent or attributes or personal drive to contribute in this way, there is very little support. I recently watched a documentary about a man who chose to live a moneyless existence. It was astonishing how hard that is, not because of the idea, but how the social structure blocks it at every opportunity. It made me think about things that had never even occurred to me...which is how society is set up to make it almost impossible to opt out of the current capitalist paradigm...there is no more free land where someone can just live off the land, somebody else already owns the rights to everything in the world...all nature is owned and access is limited to whatever the owner wants. And then when overwhelmed people escape the only way they can, into drugs...there is a "war declared", because the drugs are viewed as the problem. Spiritually bankrupt is right!
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Old 03-23-2018, 10:18 PM
 
Location: Florida
3,128 posts, read 2,253,831 times
Reputation: 9163
Quote:
Originally Posted by mike1003 View Post
We've discussed it.

Even our local sheriff refuses to allow his officers to carry Narcan
I can see a whole lot of legal implications from this!
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Old 03-23-2018, 10:25 PM
 
Location: Florida
3,128 posts, read 2,253,831 times
Reputation: 9163
Quote:
Originally Posted by mike1003 View Post
1st, one death is too many, I do not want to minimize this problem. Before you bang on me, I am a pharmacist and fully understand the issues involved in "the drug epidemic"

I want to throw 3 numbers at you. (why 3? to keep things in a simple perspective for a very complicated issue)

1) Drug overdose deaths in the US +/-50,000 a year (https://www.drugabuse.gov/related-to...se-death-rates)

2) Lung cancer deaths in the US +/-222,500 a year (https://www.cancer.net/cancer-types/...ell/statistics ) I just picked one cancer, too many to list ( You can find statistics here: https://www.cancer.net/cancer-types )

3) Heart disease deaths in the US +/- 610,000 That is 1 in 4 of all deaths in the US (https://www.cdc.gov/heartdisease/facts.htm )

I'm not including auto deaths, other diseases, suicides, etc

Before you bang on me again, I know that there is a major problem with over prescribing opioids and other meds.

Cost estimates: The NIH currently spends about $116 million a year on opioid use disorder research, mostly through the National Institute on Drug Abuse, one of the NIH’s 27 institutes and centers. To accelerate the agency’s various research initiatives, Collins says, the NIH would need four or five times the current spending—or roughly $500 million a year. (The NIH’s annual budget is set by Congress, although the organization’s directors then decide what priorities to fund within their budget.) ( Opioid Crisis: What Experts Say It Would Cost to Fix It | Money )

Why the Hell is our government throwing so much money at a problem that is for the most part self induced? Isn't this money better spent on cancer, heart disease and other diseases that plague mankind?

If someone wants to kill him, or herself, that's their problem, not mine.

Thoughts?
To be honest, I’ve never understood the war on drugs. We don’t throw people in jail for selling or smoking cigarettes even though the associated health costs are staggering. We don’t throw people in jail for obesity even though heart disease is the number one killer. Why do we continue pumping much needed billions into a lost cause? Is it because it’s “the right thing to do?”. I just don’t get it.

Habitual drug users should be locked away so they can get clean and so they will not ruin their families and communities by stealing them blind to support their habit. Drug users do not belong in society because they are not contributors but takers.
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