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I am an liberal or leftist (not sure of which is a better term) who believes in the Constitution, supporting democracies as allies, and many deep-rooted American values. Mostly, I am an American and believe this is one of the greatest countries on earth.
America got that way because of the people it has drawn from other countries. Until the 1930's the U.S. has offered almost no social "safety net." Coming to a country where the minute you set foot you had to work like crazy and, to boot, in most cases learn a new language was a daunting prospect. Though it is a fictional work, Fiddler on the Roof was based upon historical fact. Its setting, the Western part of Czarist Russia, and now modern Moldova, Ukraine, Poland, Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia were always what should have been paradoxical, despotic, anarchic and chaotic at the same time. The "government" such as it was provided few if any services, and did not enforce law and order. The famous Kishinev Pogroms were a well-known highlight of this state of affairs. People who wanted to make something of their lives simply had no future among drunken peasants that wanted nothing more than to kill them.
One of my four great-grandfathers, and the only one I know anything about was a jeweler in Kiev, Ukraine. A conscript in the Czar's army, he fled when the Army wanted to force a renewal of his term because of his skills. He and my great-grandmother (an arranged marriage in the Jewish tradition of Fiddler on the Roof) fled to New York by way of Montreal. He became a shoemaker in Yonkers, and never really struck it rich. One of their daughters was my maternal grandmother. She married my grandfather, a dentist. They bought a small house in Yonkers. While their lives were not perfect (I understand a bad marriage and alcohol abuse on the part of my grandfather were involved) they put their son (my uncle) and my mother through Syracuse University. My uncle became an executive at a major TV network. My mother became a housewife, and spurred my father to success as an interior architect after an unsuccessful Cornell education as an engineer. I went to Cornell and Boston University Law School and became a lawyer. Only in America would this levitation be possible.
And it was mostly through "the Constitution," (through grudging tolerance for Jews) and hard work, as well as a belief that there really are no limits to growth (except I'm short and didn't grow to the sky), that made all of this possible. Their was no real money in the family and we received little government assistance, except Navy-paid and GI Bill education for my father, and a small amount of unemployment assistance for brief periods between jobs for me.
My OWN life has not been perfect. However, I don't look to find fault or place blames for any of my misfortunes on other people, the government, Donald Trump, etc.
How do I rate myself a left-winger and a liberal? I believe that governments should raise money openly through taxes and not through speed traps, petty regulations and fines, etc. I support integration in the schools and work place, though I am against affirmative action. I am pro-choice. I believe in the public school system. And I support causes anathema to many conservatives, including legalized marijuana and reintroduction of wolves to Yellowstone.
Yes in fact it is much easier to be a constitutional liberal than a constitutional conservative.
I agree with this. Those I've encountered on the right say they appreciate the constitution and values, but it's mostly lip service and words only. Those I've encountered on the left live it authentically, without noise and grandstanding. I'm in the middle, watching it all.
Jbg, I have said this before, you seem to me to be more of a "Jeffersonian Democrat" than any other political stripe. Or maybe just a Libertarian. In general although I would consider myself to be more of a "conservative", we agree on most points, points of liberty.
You don't seem to support the Hillary Clinton school of liberalism, which seems to me anyway to be more about controlling people than about providing opportunity.
The reason I support liberty is practical - I simply can't run another man's (or woman's) affairs for them. They can never tell me enough about what they want to get done, using what they have, for me to efficiently administer it.
Take legalized marijuana. While I work in an industry that won't tolerate drug use, and I can understand why, if the average Joe wants to smoke some weed, so long as he does not operate any potentially dangerous machinery while high, what business is it of mine? And there are the "knock-on" effects - if we keep MJ illegal, society has to pay for cops to arrest the user and supplier, courts to try them, jails or at least probation officers to "supervise" their "penitence" - all this money has to come from the taxes of productive people. With legal MJ, firstly you can tax it, like cigarettes and booze, secondly the legal apparat is not occupied with low grade drug users so it has more "bandwidth" to attack "real" criminals. So which one makes more sense? To me, the legalized scenario makes a lot more sense.
Similarly and more simply with choice - what profit is there in forcing a woman to bear a child she does not want?!
Anyway - I think most Americans who actually think are hard to categorize as simply "liberal" or "conservative" - there is more to it than an "A or B" choice.
Jbg, I have said this before, you seem to me to be more of a "Jeffersonian Democrat" than any other political stripe. Or maybe just a Libertarian. In general although I would consider myself to be more of a "conservative", we agree on most points, points of liberty.
More of a Reagan Democrat. Remember Reagan stood on a stage with Truman during the 1948 campaign and probably was the single most important person getting him elected. He was a Democrat at that point.
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Originally Posted by M3 Mitch
You don't seem to support the Hillary Clinton school of liberalism, which seems to me anyway to be more about controlling people than about providing opportunity.
You got that right though I voted for her.
Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Mitch
The reason I support liberty is practical - I simply can't run another man's (or woman's) affairs for them. They can never tell me enough about what they want to get done, using what they have, for me to efficiently administer it.
I support liberty because it allows people to do what they do best and what they want. It's no accident that the English-speaking countries (and Israel) are the most successful, in addition to South Korea, Singapore (speaks some English), and Japan. Continental Europe, Africa, and most of Asia are basket cases.
Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Mitch
Take legalized marijuana. While I work in an industry that won't tolerate drug use, and I can understand why, if the average Joe wants to smoke some weed, so long as he does not operate any potentially dangerous machinery while high, what business is it of mine? And there are the "knock-on" effects - if we keep MJ illegal, society has to pay for cops to arrest the user and supplier, courts to try them, jails or at least probation officers to "supervise" their "penitence" - all this money has to come from the taxes of productive people. With legal MJ, firstly you can tax it, like cigarettes and booze, secondly the legal apparat is not occupied with low grade drug users so it has more "bandwidth" to attack "real" criminals. So which one makes more sense? To me, the legalized scenario makes a lot more sense.
I agree with you. Mostly it's a good source of tax revenues though I have mixed feelings on that.
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Originally Posted by M3 Mitch
Similarly and more simply with choice - what profit is there in forcing a woman to bear a child she does not want?!
Exactly. Someone has to raise the unwanted child. And many are in fact not raised and are brought up by gangs. Sort like "Oliver" but a lot more violent.
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Originally Posted by M3 Mitch
Anyway - I think most Americans who actually think are hard to categorize as simply "liberal" or "conservative" - there is more to it than an "A or B" choice.
I agree with you there. I am a pragmatist even though I tell people that Che Guevera and Maxine Waters are my heroes. Sort of like when I told a first date, now my wife, that I was an animal rights activist since she wore a fox coat on a not-very-cold (36°) January night.
I
One of my four great-grandfathers, and the only one I know anything about was a jeweler in Kiev, Ukraine. A conscript in the Czar's army, he fled when the Army wanted to force a renewal of his term because of his skills. He and my great-grandmother (an arranged marriage in the Jewish tradition of Fiddler on the Roof) fled to New York by way of Montreal. He became a shoemaker in Yonkers, and never really struck it rich. One of their daughters was my maternal grandmother. She married my grandfather, a dentist. They bought a small house in Yonkers. While their lives were not perfect (I understand a bad marriage and alcohol abuse on the part of my grandfather were involved) they put their son (my uncle) and my mother through Syracuse University. My uncle became an executive at a major TV network. My mother became a housewife, and spurred my father to success as an interior architect after an unsuccessful Cornell education as an engineer. I went to Cornell and Boston University Law School and became a lawyer. Only in America would this levitation be possible.
Really? What about Canada? Why didn't your great grandfather stay in Canada?
Really? What about Canada? Why didn't your great grandfather stay in Canada?
Good question. But I wouldn't exist if they did. I can guess the answer though.
They probably had their heart set on getting to America. However, the conditions under which they fled, i.e. as deserters, didn't allow them much time to choose. They had to flee on the first available ship they could afford going to a free country. Also Canada's Jewish community didn't really expand until the U.S. slammed the door in the early 1920's. Canada was probably mostly a way-station for the Jews, much as Shanghai served that role during WW II.
Yes, there's plenty of self-made rich or successful people who are very liberal.
It's ironic that independently successful people would support and throw money toward liberal political parties and politicians but it's not uncommon at all.
Of course they can. Where they (the left) go wrong (as do the right) in some cases is running afoul of the Constitution in the first place. It just seems bizarre to me that rather than acknowledging bad as "bad" and good as "good" many folks seem to be preoccupied with a laser-like focus on who they subjectively feel is "worse." It's akin to arriving at a wilderness campsite, being instructed to choose between sharing the tent with Ted Bundy and Jeffrey Dahmer, and pretending you can't avail yourself of the option to ****ing leave.
My family background (Wall Street Republicans, Working Class Socialists) has twisted my allegiances in many directions over the years. My graduate school educations (US Colonial History and then Economics) have added further stretch marks on my political ideas and affiliations. The Election of 2016 strained my beliefs even farther. The only thing I think I believe, today, is that the US Constitution is no longer working compared to what the Federalists envisioned andthat the divergence started in the election of 1800. Today, living in Denmark, I am a more or less contened mixture of a Socialist and Constututional Monarchist. The problem comes when I vote in US elections.
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