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Old 05-15-2018, 07:29 PM
 
Location: Bay Area, CA
28,185 posts, read 43,461,725 times
Reputation: 18574

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Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
In the past decade I've been almost in about a dozen accidents. In every one of those 12 almost accidents, there were two things true -- it was a woman driving AND they were talking on a cell phone or were texting.
And only ONE of those could logically be a potential contributing factor - seeing as there is no evidence to support the belief that women are bad/worse drivers, and I could easily cite in response how many times I've almost been hit by a male. I could also try associating race with driving skills, but again, that would be merely anecdotal. Cell phone use while driving, on the other hand, can easily be proven as a distraction via studies and practical tests (e.g. testing reaction times in a simulator). So for the sake of keeping this worthy of "Great Debates," let's stick with issues that can actually be backed up with evidence. Fair enough?

Now to address one point in the OP's post, are you trying to compare changing a radio station with texting? Or just handheld phone use (talking)? The latter might be comparable, but the former is most definitely NOT. I can change the station on my radio without even looking, especially since I have a Sirius/XM receiver with pre-set channels... and having owned the car for a while now, my muscle memory can easily hit the buttons without looking. Heck, I can even select a specific pre-set channel! Reading or especially composing a text requires completely taking your eyes off the road, and for a much longer period of time. I can't even safely text while WALKING, for goodness sakes, so it's unbelievable that people still think it's a safe activity behind the wheel. Is this something you personally do? If so, please stop; because I guarantee you aren't as adept as you might think.
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Old 05-15-2018, 07:54 PM
 
Location: Bay Area, CA
28,185 posts, read 43,461,725 times
Reputation: 18574
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbgusa View Post
Did you just make that up? I'm an attorney. Lots of my clients call me from my cell. Or else why is a cell number part of almost every iPhone "contact" I have?
Sure, there are SOME folks conducting business from the car - however I'd bet the majority of car talkers are not. Anecdotal, but just the other day I was at a stoplight when the glare of someone's phone caught my attention, so I looked over to see what he was doing on it. He was reading Yelp reviews! Is that really something you can't wait to do until you're home, or at least safely parked?? Even if you are doing business, there's a safe way and a not-so-safe way to do that. Here in California, any use of your phone (as a driver) without a hands-free device is illegal, whether you're moving at the time or not. And I believe there is a good reason for that, especially considering how often I have to beep at someone, when they're too busy with the phone to notice a light has turned green.
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Old 05-15-2018, 09:11 PM
 
5,756 posts, read 3,041,090 times
Reputation: 15092
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbgusa View Post
Let's get some comment on my premise that some of these laws are based, not on real problems but on guilt that we're an affluent, "let the good times roll" type of society. Some people like to walk around with a puss on their face, feeling very grave about world problems.
Because your premise is false. The speed limit was set at 55 in an attempt to reduce fuel consumption in an era when everyone was in total panic about running out of oil and lines at gas stations went for blocks. And cars got about 12 MPG. Whether it actually accomplished that or not is a different issue.


As for cell phones, well, people yapping on their phones while driving aren't really paying full attention to the job at hand, which is to maneuver a multi thousand pound vehicle at speed through other vehicles doing the same thing.
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Old 05-15-2018, 09:25 PM
 
Location: New York Area
13,416 posts, read 5,212,020 times
Reputation: 10760
Quote:
Originally Posted by tnff View Post
Because your premise is false. The speed limit was set at 55 in an attempt to reduce fuel consumption in an era when everyone was in total panic about running out of oil and lines at gas stations went for blocks. And cars got about 12 MPG. Whether it actually accomplished that or not is a different issue.
You are ignoring important parts of the OP:
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbgusa View Post
The NMSL was supposed to be temporary but didn't end until December 1995. I suspect the real motive was a "hair-shirt" mentality; that self-abnegation may feel good for the soul and for the conscience if not for the economy.
By 1981 cars were getting far more than 12 MPG. The NMSL, albeit slightly modified in the form of patchy 65 mph limits after 1988 stuck around a long time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tnff View Post
As for cell phones, well, people yapping on their phones while driving aren't really paying full attention to the job at hand, which is to maneuver a multi thousand pound vehicle at speed through other vehicles doing the same thing.
And this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbgusa View Post
But the law makes no distinction between texting, hand-held use of a cell phone for talking or changing a music selection, which is much like changing a radio station. Nobody ever discussed restricting car radios back in the day. Maybe people had more cajones then and wouldn't accept a nanny state.
Cars had radios and other entertainment from well before I was born, which was 1957.
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Old 05-15-2018, 09:30 PM
 
Location: Texas
42,220 posts, read 49,768,169 times
Reputation: 66976
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
In the past decade I've been almost in about a dozen accidents. In every one of those 12 almost accidents, there were two things true -- it was a woman driving AND they were talking on a cell phone or were texting.
I work in 2 major trauma centers (and have worked in several in the last 20 years). 5 of them level ones.

Yep. Lady on cell phone big offender.

But man speeding (drunk or otherwise) kills or maims the worst.

People who want to compare cell phone use to changing the station on the radio are either deluding themselves so that they can continue behaving inappropriately when they're supposed to be driving or are completely incapable of comprehending science.
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Old 05-15-2018, 10:16 PM
 
Location: Colorado Springs
18,891 posts, read 8,873,507 times
Reputation: 18296
Quote:
Originally Posted by gizmo980 View Post
And only ONE of those could logically be a potential contributing factor - seeing as there is no evidence to support the belief that women are bad/worse drivers, and I could easily cite in response how many times I've almost been hit by a male. I could also try associating race with driving skills, but again, that would be merely anecdotal. Cell phone use while driving, on the other hand, can easily be proven as a distraction via studies and practical tests (e.g. testing reaction times in a simulator). So for the sake of keeping this worthy of "Great Debates," let's stick with issues that can actually be backed up with evidence. Fair enough?

Now to address one point in the OP's post, are you trying to compare changing a radio station with texting? Or just handheld phone use (talking)? The latter might be comparable, but the former is most definitely NOT. I can change the station on my radio without even looking, especially since I have a Sirius/XM receiver with pre-set channels... and having owned the car for a while now, my muscle memory can easily hit the buttons without looking. Heck, I can even select a specific pre-set channel! Reading or especially composing a text requires completely taking your eyes off the road, and for a much longer period of time. I can't even safely text while WALKING, for goodness sakes, so it's unbelievable that people still think it's a safe activity behind the wheel. Is this something you personally do? If so, please stop; because I guarantee you aren't as adept as you might think.
Just to make it clear, I made no conclusions about women drivers. I simply stated what was true about all those close calls.
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Old 05-16-2018, 10:24 AM
 
5,756 posts, read 3,041,090 times
Reputation: 15092
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbgusa View Post
You are ignoring important parts of the OP:By 1981 cars were getting far more than 12 MPG. The NMSL, albeit slightly modified in the form of patchy 65 mph limits after 1988 stuck around a long time.
And this:Cars had radios and other entertainment from well before I was born, which was 1957.
So your argument is there is no difference between texting or talking on a cell phone in one hand while driving with the other? I think that pretty much confirms your argument is without merit. Oh and what I responded to was your argument that these laws had something to do with guilt over affluence, not the nanny state. Nice attempt to change the goalposts.
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Old 05-16-2018, 10:34 AM
 
Location: New York Area
13,416 posts, read 5,212,020 times
Reputation: 10760
Quote:
Originally Posted by tnff View Post
So your argument is there is no difference between texting or talking on a cell phone in one hand while driving with the other? I think that pretty much confirms your argument is without merit.
I personally usually drive with one hand rested on the gear shift. Just personal preference.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tnff View Post
Oh and what I responded to was your argument that these laws had something to do with guilt over affluence, not the nanny state. Nice attempt to change the goalposts.
That's not a move of the goal posts. I believe that the nanny state directly comes from the impulse of the "anointed" (see Thomas Sowell for definition of that term or Google it) to tell other people how to live their lives "for the common good."
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Old 05-16-2018, 10:35 AM
 
Location: Colorado Springs
18,891 posts, read 8,873,507 times
Reputation: 18296
Quote:
Originally Posted by tnff View Post
So your argument is there is no difference between texting or talking on a cell phone in one hand while driving with the other? I think that pretty much confirms your argument is without merit. Oh and what I responded to was your argument that these laws had something to do with guilt over affluence, not the nanny state. Nice attempt to change the goalposts.
Unfortunately, jbgusa's position can be boiled down to something very simple: I wanna do what I wanna do when I wanna do it, and to hell with everybody else.

I see that attitude right out here on the street in front of my townhouse. I wanna exceed the speed limit. I wanna turn left even when the light is yellow or even red. I wanna text while driving. Result -- an intersection that's not that bad where there is an accident once or twice every month...including roll overs...and it's in a residential neighborhood.
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Old 05-16-2018, 11:28 AM
 
6,205 posts, read 1,505,357 times
Reputation: 4504
So what about all the 1000s of people who text and drive or talk and drive everyday and do not have an accident or do not loose control of the car? They are just lucky?
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