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Old 05-16-2018, 01:20 PM
Status: "People and tear gas - either it's a border or it isn't." (set 29 days ago)
 
Location: New York Area
13,811 posts, read 5,457,226 times
Reputation: 11015

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Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
Unfortunately, jbgusa's position can be boiled down to something very simple: I wanna do what I wanna do when I wanna do it, and to hell with everybody else.

I see that attitude right out here on the street in front of my townhouse. I wanna exceed the speed limit. I wanna turn left even when the light is yellow or even red. I wanna text while driving. Result -- an intersection that's not that bad where there is an accident once or twice every month...including roll overs...and it's in a residential neighborhood.
My view, within limits, is “Your right to swing your arms ends just where the other man’s nose begins.” (link). The limits are that people who have not had previous accidents or incidents, are over a certain age, say 20, and have no impairing medical conditions should have the right to use their cell phone when driving, but not for texting. Also a person should be able to be stopped and ticketed for obviously distracted driving. Perhaps use of a cellphone at the same time should enhance the points and/or fine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rstevens62 View Post
So what about all the 1000s of people who text and drive or talk and drive everyday and do not have an accident or do not loose control of the car? They are just lucky?
Positions to the contrary are based upon emotion rather than reason. There's something called risk management that some people don't quite get. We can't eliminate all risks in life.

That's why we aren't kept in our bedrooms and fed throughout our lives by our parents. Life necessarily entails risk.
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Old 05-16-2018, 01:45 PM
 
Location: Colorado Springs
19,659 posts, read 9,263,673 times
Reputation: 18875
Quote:
Originally Posted by rstevens62 View Post
So what about all the 1000s of people who text and drive or talk and drive everyday and do not have an accident or do not loose control of the car? They are just lucky?
It's sort of like you're condoning Russian roulette.

What about the thousands of people who drink and drive and don't get in accidents. Therefore we should legalize drinking and driving?
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Old 05-16-2018, 09:32 PM
 
Location: Bay Area, CA
28,540 posts, read 43,934,920 times
Reputation: 19225
Quote:
Originally Posted by rstevens62 View Post
So what about all the 1000s of people who text and drive or talk and drive everyday and do not have an accident or do not loose control of the car? They are just lucky?
Yes. Just like people who smoke for 50 years and don't get lung diseases are just lucky... doesn't change the fact that you've greatly increased your risk factors by smoking! And I'm a smoker myself, but have never pretended that my current (relatively good) health is any indication that it's a safe habit.
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Old 05-16-2018, 09:36 PM
 
Location: Bay Area, CA
28,540 posts, read 43,934,920 times
Reputation: 19225
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbgusa View Post
Positions to the contrary are based upon emotion rather than reason. There's something called risk management that some people don't quite get. We can't eliminate all risks in life.

That's why we aren't kept in our bedrooms and fed throughout our lives by our parents. Life necessarily entails risk.
Of course life has risks, and we all choose which ones to take vs avoid. But when your behavior puts OTHER people at risk, that is when I say you should be held accountable. Even smoking (which I used as an analogy above) doesn't compare, since second-hand smoke is an avoidable hazard for both parties - and in the situations where it wasn't avoidable, like smoking in a car with children present, or in enclosed public spaces, that's precisely why laws against those behaviors were enacted. And when you text while driving, you're potentially inflicting harm on other people without their consent. I don't care what you do to yourself, but leave me out of it please!
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Old 05-17-2018, 06:58 AM
 
7,359 posts, read 1,792,870 times
Reputation: 5248
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
It's sort of like you're condoning Russian roulette.

What about the thousands of people who drink and drive and don't get in accidents. Therefore we should legalize drinking and driving?
No, thats not what Im suggesting, but I do believe the approach should be much different if they want the law to be effective.

Before it was a thing, I texted while driving 100s of time, but I always made sure I did it when conditions were as safe as possible, example, I never attempted to do this when a lot of focus was required, cars moving in close proximity to each other, like stop and go traffic. I would do it when I was on fairly straight road, no other cars around at the time, or on a boring stretch of expressway without any other cars or lane changes/ merging at the time.

So basically...I used COMMON SENSE, and have never had an accident. Luck was NOT involved at all. Creating laws that are so extremely black and white/ all or nothing approach, defeats the premise of using basic common sense when driving a car. Its that same common sense that tells people not to mess with hunting for a CD, and putting it in, while a lot of focus is required in driving at the moment, common sense tells them to wait until conditions are safer to start doing this.
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Old 05-17-2018, 07:34 AM
Status: "People and tear gas - either it's a border or it isn't." (set 29 days ago)
 
Location: New York Area
13,811 posts, read 5,457,226 times
Reputation: 11015
Quote:
Originally Posted by rstevens62 View Post
No, thats not what Im suggesting, but I do believe the approach should be much different if they want the law to be effective.

Before it was a thing, I texted while driving 100s of time, but I always made sure I did it when conditions were as safe as possible, example, I never attempted to do this when a lot of focus was required, cars moving in close proximity to each other, like stop and go traffic. I would do it when I was on fairly straight road, no other cars around at the time, or on a boring stretch of expressway without any other cars or lane changes/ merging at the time.

So basically...I used COMMON SENSE, and have never had an accident. Luck was NOT involved at all. Creating laws that are so extremely black and white/ all or nothing approach, defeats the premise of using basic common sense when driving a car. Its that same common sense that tells people not to mess with hunting for a CD, and putting it in, while a lot of focus is required in driving at the moment, common sense tells them to wait until conditions are safer to start doing this.
I totally agree and this is what I mean by risk management. To get a driver's license you need to be an adult or close to one. Perhaps we should give less leeway to drivers 16-19 but otherwise we need to assume a certain degree of judgment for drivers.
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Old 05-17-2018, 09:46 AM
 
563 posts, read 320,351 times
Reputation: 1840
Quote:
Originally Posted by rstevens62 View Post
No, thats not what Im suggesting, but I do believe the approach should be much different if they want the law to be effective.

Before it was a thing, I texted while driving 100s of time, but I always made sure I did it when conditions were as safe as possible, example, I never attempted to do this when a lot of focus was required, cars moving in close proximity to each other, like stop and go traffic. I would do it when I was on fairly straight road, no other cars around at the time, or on a boring stretch of expressway without any other cars or lane changes/ merging at the time.

So basically...I used COMMON SENSE, and have never had an accident. Luck was NOT involved at all. Creating laws that are so extremely black and white/ all or nothing approach, defeats the premise of using basic common sense when driving a car. Its that same common sense that tells people not to mess with hunting for a CD, and putting it in, while a lot of focus is required in driving at the moment, common sense tells them to wait until conditions are safer to start doing this.
It sounds to me like you're suggesting things would be OK if people used common sense while driving.
I totally agree. Now all we need to do is figure out a way to get people to use common sense.

In the interim, I have an idea that's not a perfect solution, but would help: outlaw behaviors that kill innocent people but other the behavior has only a small benefit to society. Death is a big deal, arranging where to meet for supper is not.
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Old 05-17-2018, 10:08 AM
 
5,460 posts, read 804,506 times
Reputation: 14313
I am 100% for reasonable speed limits and banning cellphone use while driving. The fact is cellphone use while driving and excessive speeds are responsible for probably thousands of deaths per year.

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/02/14/traf...e-picture.html

However, that being said, I do think that 55 mph speed limits on open and level rural highways with unobstructed views of at least two miles in every direction in daylight and good weather are ridiculous.
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Old 05-17-2018, 03:00 PM
 
Location: Bay Area, CA
28,540 posts, read 43,934,920 times
Reputation: 19225
Quote:
Originally Posted by rstevens62 View Post
Before it was a thing, I texted while driving 100s of time, but I always made sure I did it when conditions were as safe as possible
There is never a time or "condition" when texting while driving is safe... sorry, but everyone with COMMON SENSE (which you claim to have) knows this is true. The only time it's safe yet illegal is when you're stopped at a red light, but even then it distracts you from when the light turns green, or if something unexpected like an emergency vehicle comes along. You know how often I have to beep at the person in front, when they're too busy with the phone to notice the light's turned? Or they're sitting 5 car lengths behind the next car, because they don't realize everyone has scooted forward? So that's enough evidence of it being a distraction, even when you aren't actually moving.

People can't even WALK while texting (I've almost been crashed into by enough distracted walkers to say this), but you think you can "safely" manage a 2-ton vehicle? Okay, sure. Justify this all you want, but it really IS just a matter of luck that you haven't wrecked yet.
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Old 05-17-2018, 03:19 PM
 
Location: Central IL
13,910 posts, read 7,515,646 times
Reputation: 32358
Quote:
Originally Posted by rstevens62 View Post
No, thats not what Im suggesting, but I do believe the approach should be much different if they want the law to be effective.

Before it was a thing, I texted while driving 100s of time, but I always made sure I did it when conditions were as safe as possible, example, I never attempted to do this when a lot of focus was required, cars moving in close proximity to each other, like stop and go traffic. I would do it when I was on fairly straight road, no other cars around at the time, or on a boring stretch of expressway without any other cars or lane changes/ merging at the time.

So basically...I used COMMON SENSE, and have never had an accident. Luck was NOT involved at all. Creating laws that are so extremely black and white/ all or nothing approach, defeats the premise of using basic common sense when driving a car. Its that same common sense that tells people not to mess with hunting for a CD, and putting it in, while a lot of focus is required in driving at the moment, common sense tells them to wait until conditions are safer to start doing this.
Most people don't have common sense. The point is that safety far outweighs the importance of any text...99% of which are completely inane and are just people wasting time. The other 1% are important enough that you can wait 2 minutes to pull over into a parking lot to answer.

I really don't want to be killed over someone texting that they're running 5 minutes late!
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