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It's gotten pretty disgusting. What's also just crazy is what actions do have consequences. The news last night was howling about a boulder that hit a tree that was videoed by a road crew that needed to move it. The gulch was deserted, but <gasp> the damage to the tree...that didn't even appear to shake in the video. The construction crew has agreed to plant more trees there.
Of course, that was after a parade of experts testifying about the dangerous of being separated from parents for the illegal immigrants and impromptu protests springing up around the country. Defeating an obvious temporary measure that will bring fear rumors to anyone thinking about bringing their family the US illegally. If a wall isn't going to do it, fear tactics might. Obvious what the President is doing....poor taste, yes, but he's not entirely wrong in apparently needing a stick to get Congress to move on the issue.
In other non-reported news...100x the illegal families are now separated by servicemen and servicewomen that are on assignment with the military, some whom are poor and lacking basic needs....back to you Ken.
I agree. But unfortunately, it starts at the top. The POTUS receives no negative consequences for his actions, even for those actions that are are illegal, violate the Constitution, violate the norms of a modern civilized society, or violate the norms of American morality.
When the rest of the country sees that the elected President can do whatever he wants with no consequences, of course the rest of the country feels they should have no consequences either. Kind of like a role model thing?
Instead of consequences now, it appears that if one can get away with one's actions, they are being 'smart.' And when any politicians with morals goes against the party line, they are 'primaried' or voted out, so consequences for showing a backbone and sticking to principles can actually be viewed as punishment.
This is a cultural shift in American morality, and I don't see it changing as long as we are on the road we are on with the current leaders in power. We are living in a society where 'consequences' are not defined as being punished for not doing the right thing. Consequences may be punishment for doing the right thing.
I think we can safely say that the US has become a bizarro world where consequences are not based on morality, doing the 'right' thing, or doing what you believe is the principled action to take, but consequences may instead result from not obeying the 'mob mentality" of those wielding power (or imagined power).
Some of this is caused by the people, the Constitution gives us the right and even the duty to remove govts from power if they reach this point, point is, ITS UP TO THE PEOPLE TO ACTUALLY DO THIS THOUGH, if we just sit back and obey and comply, of course govt is going to walk all over us. Do you honestly think a tyrannical govt is going to come out say "well we are tyrannical now, time for you all to rise up and revolt"...LOL
Many people confuse patriotism with obedience/ subservience today, if a govt is tyrannical (like the current govt in power), we are NOT to obey or comply, I believe thats actually treasonous too do so.
I know it's inconvenient, and many (especially younger people) don't like to hear it, but it's mostly due to a loss of spiritual values in this country. I'm talking about The Golden Rule, even an eye-for-an-eye.
People used to have a sense of wrongs and rights, and had a gut sensation when they did something knowingly wrong. It was taught that wrongs had consequences, and that they would catch up with us. And so, even if we "messed up", we had to correct them. It's not that there were less errors and wrongs before, just that now we mostly ignore them and move on (looking the other way).
I've lived long enough to see the gradual change over the decades. I have no doubt about its main source. It also shows up in cultural and media changes - which also influences people - but those still go back to the same root change.
Even many in modern churches are just as shallow as those on the outside. They no longer represent the ways and values of the past. They're just as much of the problem, and maybe even more so.
Last edited by Thoreau424; 06-20-2018 at 10:33 AM..
I have been noticing that consequences seem to have been put aside and lost. When I was a kid and I screwed up, I got a crack on the ass. Eventually you kind of pick up that there are consequences to actions. Good or bad habits/deeds relate to actions taken later.
Is your credit card bill too high? Don't let the credit card company trick you into paying it. WTF? You owe $100,000. in back taxes? Let us settle this for a fraction of what you owe???
If you didn't come here illegally, none of this would be happening. If you didn't put a bullet in that guys head, you wouldn't be in prison. If you didn't steal some ones stuff...
People know this. It doesn't matter where you came from. people know this. You did it. It is your fault, it really is.
Being too spoiled or being too poor or being too anything is not excuse enough
Gotta go, the blood pressure is climbing
Running down people and getting off, because you're rich....
Running down a toddler and leaving the scene only gets you 16 months. Kill a persons dog and get 4 years...WTF?
Have sex with a teen, get 2-4 years. If you're a male, then make that 15-20 years...
I hear you OP. We have all seen or heard where criminals are let off easy for their crimes. A few months back we had a Policeman murdered by a guy he was trying to serve a warrant to. The guy had over 125 priors from drugs, to illegal guns to assault and battery. He had a temper yet he was let off by some liberal judge time and time again.
We have a class of people today that refuse to take responsibility for their actions. They are quick to blame society, their upbringing, their drug or drinking habits, everything but themselves.
They feel they are entitled and above the law and general rules of a polite society that we are all in together.
It is a sad state we are in and I don't see it getting any better any time soon. A poster here blames Trump but we can look at real evidence with Hillary who actually committed crimes that have put other people in prison.
It is hard to believe in the rule of law and have morals that dictate right from wrong when we see that some people are above the law and bad actions are rewarded.
Considering that prior to the "information age" a person could just move to a different state and start using a variation on their name, and the chance of them being tracked down by law enforcement, debt collection, etc. would drop astronomically, somehow I'm not convinced that people were once so much more likely to be held accountable for their actions.
I know it's inconvenient, and many (especially younger people) don't like to hear it, but it's mostly due to a loss of spiritual values in this country. I'm talking about The Golden Rule, even an eye-for-an-eye.
People used to have a sense of wrongs and rights, and had a gut sensation when they did something knowingly wrong. It was taught that wrongs had consequences, and that they would catch up with us. And so, even if we "messed up", we had to correct them. It's not that there were less errors and wrongs before, just that now we mostly ignore them and move on (looking the other way).
I've lived long enough to see the gradual change over the decades. I have no doubt about its main source. It also shows up in cultural and media changes - which also influences people - but those still go back to the same root change.
Even many in modern churches are just as shallow as those on the outside. They no longer represent the ways and values of the past. They're just as much of the problem, and maybe even more so.
I agree with this even though I'm not religious. I was raised in a rural environment that was very "Maybery" like. We were taught good morals and values that are basically the ten commandments. I think a lot of people have a strong internal moral compass but other don't and there fore need something to remind them of how to behave and act. That is what religion is for. Unfortunately, as you said the church has also lost it's way and focuses on other things.
I have been noticing that consequences seem to have been put aside and lost. When I was a kid and I screwed up, I got a crack on the ass. Eventually you kind of pick up that there are consequences to actions. Good or bad habits/deeds relate to actions taken later.
Is your credit card bill too high? Don't let the credit card company trick you into paying it. WTF? You owe $100,000. in back taxes? Let us settle this for a fraction of what you owe???
If you didn't come here illegally, none of this would be happening. If you didn't put a bullet in that guys head, you wouldn't be in prison. If you didn't steal some ones stuff...
People know this. It doesn't matter where you came from. people know this. You did it. It is your fault, it really is.
Being too spoiled or being too poor or being too anything is not excuse enough
Gotta go, the blood pressure is climbing
Another THINGS TOTALLY SUCK THESE DAYS COMPARED TO THE GOOD OLD DAYS rant passed off as a 'Great Debate'.
Another THINGS TOTALLY SUCK THESE DAYS COMPARED TO THE GOOD OLD DAYS rant passed off as a 'Great Debate'.
Not at all. There were no "good old days". Every era had it's good and bad. I'm just saying that this part of society has gone down hill.
On the other hand, There seems to be a lot more " nice " going on in day to day interactions. In the last few years, there are a lot more people holding the door for others at stores, etc. More people letting others out in traffic. More please and thank yous. As Martha would say, it's a good thing.
Ask our president where paying the consequences went.
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