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On Crime:
First, your link to the Texas DPS says the following: These figures do not attempt to allege that foreign nationals in the country illegally commit more crimes than other groups.
That link simply gives stats about the number of crimes illegal immigrants commit, not the rate at which they commit them. Perhaps you should actually read the "studies" you post before posting them.
Multiple studies have been done on illegal immigration and crime rates, and the only one I know of that supports the idea that illegal immigrants commit crimes at higher rates had seriously flawed methodology because it simply evaluated prisoners in federal prisons, looking at whether they were legal or illegal immigrants. Considering that illegal immigration is a federal crime, that study massively over-selected for illegal immigrants. That study is the one most people think Trump has used for his justification of his views, and it can be found here: https://www.gao.gov/new.items/d11187.pdf
Every other study I've seen on the topic supports the idea that illegal immigrants commit crimes at lower rates. Here are two:
On Economics:
First off, come on. You are really citing a study done by the "Federation for American Immigration Reform" in a discussion about immigration? That is about as far from un-biased as it gets.
First-generation illegal immigrants are net negatives in economic terms. I have no doubt that they cost more than they produce. However, their children (second generation immigrants) are actually greater economic contributors than native citizens. The most comprehensive study that has been done on the economic impact of illegal immigration was done by the National Academies of Science, and it can be found here: https://www.nap.edu/read/23550/chapter/2
A few key findings (quoted):
On average, individuals in the first generation are more costly to governments, mainly at the state and local levels, than are the native-born generations; however, immigrants’ children—the second generation—are among the strongest economic and fiscal contributors in the population.
The inflow of the foreign-born at a given time is, under normal circumstances, a relatively minor factor in the $18 trillion U.S. economy.
When measured over a period of more than 10 years, the impact of immigration on the wages of natives overall is very small.
How many illegal aliens have committed felony ID theft or tax evasion to work here? Most haven't even been caught yet.
My source for their negative impact economically on our society cites their sources. Their kids born on our soil will be in direct competition for jobs and resources against Americans when they become of age. I see no benefit to that as Americans would produce the same results you are claiming for them but with fewer opportunities. Where are you getting that the adult children of illegal aliens are bigger economic contributors than those born from citizen parents? That makes no sense to me. Are you claiming that they are inferior to them?
You and your link are blurring the lines between legal immigrants and their kids and illegal aliens and their kids. I object to illegal aliens because they are definitely a net burden and they have no business being here. The latter should be of concern to you also. We are a nation of laws. I don't have a problem with legal immigration in controlled numbers. Here's the statistics on the welfare usage by illegal aliens.
As I said, we can argue till we're blue in the face about crime statistics and economics but the bottom line is there is no justifiable argument for their presence here because they are here in violation of our laws.
Maybe the right wing politicians could be more generous to citizens in need if so much of the resources intended for them weren’t soaked up by illegals and their families.
Of course that is not a given.
I agree that immigration should be strictly controlled & monitored, as nobody has the inherent right to come here.
A guest worker program that is functional & respectful should be set up, but it doesn’t have to be an immigration invitation.
Maybe the right wing politicians could be more generous to citizens in need if so much of the resources intended for them weren’t soaked up by illegals and their families.
Of course that is not a given.
I agree that immigration should be strictly controlled & monitored, as nobody has the inherent right to come here.
A guest worker program that is functional & respectful should be set up, but it doesn’t have to be an immigration invitation.
I'm not understanding why you are making negative claims about the GOP on this matter. It was the Democrats that voted down e-verify and it is the Democrats that want amnesty for illegal aliens, are for sanctuary cities and oppose and type of enforcement and security measures such as the wall. It is states run by liberal Democrats such as Calif. that are giving everything to illegal aliens at the expense of the taxpayer.
We already have several guest worker programs. I don't think we need anymore as there are no jobs that most Americans won't do for a fair wage.
I'm not understanding why you are making negative claims about the GOP on this matter. It was the Democrats that voted down e-verify and it is the Democrats that want amnesty for illegal aliens, are for sanctuary cities and oppose and type of enforcement and security measures such as the wall. It is states run by liberal Democrats such as Calif. that are giving everything to illegal aliens at the expense of the taxpayer.
We already have several guest worker programs. I don't think we need anymore as there are no jobs that most Americans won't do for a fair wage.
Other than now (and now it's being done for immoral purposes) just exactly which Republican in the past has solved the problem. Don't beat around the bush. Tell me the name of the previous Republican president who solved the immigration problem. Just say the name.
In my lifetime we've had Eisenhower, Nixon, Ford, Reagan, Bush, and Bush. Which one of them solved the problem? It's a simple question. Can you handle it?
On Crime:
First, your link to the Texas DPS says the following: These figures do not attempt to allege that foreign nationals in the country illegally commit more crimes than other groups.
That link simply gives stats about the number of crimes illegal immigrants commit, not the rate at which they commit them. Perhaps you should actually read the "studies" you post before posting them.
Multiple studies have been done on illegal immigration and crime rates, and the only one I know of that supports the idea that illegal immigrants commit crimes at higher rates had seriously flawed methodology because it simply evaluated prisoners in federal prisons, looking at whether they were legal or illegal immigrants. Considering that illegal immigration is a federal crime, that study massively over-selected for illegal immigrants. That study is the one most people think Trump has used for his justification of his views, and it can be found here: https://www.gao.gov/new.items/d11187.pdf
Every other study I've seen on the topic supports the idea that illegal immigrants commit crimes at lower rates. Here are two:
On Economics:
First off, come on. You are really citing a study done by the "Federation for American Immigration Reform" in a discussion about immigration? That is about as far from un-biased as it gets.
First-generation illegal immigrants are net negatives in economic terms. I have no doubt that they cost more than they produce. However, their children (second generation immigrants) are actually greater economic contributors than native citizens. The most comprehensive study that has been done on the economic impact of illegal immigration was done by the National Academies of Science, and it can be found here: https://www.nap.edu/read/23550/chapter/2
A few key findings (quoted):
On average, individuals in the first generation are more costly to governments, mainly at the state and local levels, than are the native-born generations; however, immigrants’ children—the second generation—are among the strongest economic and fiscal contributors in the population.
The inflow of the foreign-born at a given time is, under normal circumstances, a relatively minor factor in the $18 trillion U.S. economy.
When measured over a period of more than 10 years, the impact of immigration on the wages of natives overall is very small.
Try and refute this FACT, if there's even ONE crime or ONE murder committed by an Illegal Alien it's one that didn't happen if that person had just obeyed the law to begin with and stayed from whence they came.
We've got enough dirtbags that are citizens why the hell do we need to look the other way for more potential dirtbags to illegally enter?
Other than now (and now it's being done for immoral purposes) just exactly which Republican in the past has solved the problem. Don't beat around the bush. Tell me the name of the previous Republican president who solved the immigration problem. Just say the name.
In my lifetime we've had Eisenhower, Nixon, Ford, Reagan, Bush, and Bush. Which one of them solved the problem? It's a simple question. Can you handle it?
None have but of that list Reagan tried to work on it, he gave amnesty with a promise from Congress to close the border and get on a policy.
What's being done now about "immigration" that is immoral? Eisenhower deported many illegal aliens under "operation *******".
You think separating children from their parents, and then having the inability to reunite many of them is moral? Where I'm from, we'd call that kidnapping.
You think separating children from their parents, and then having the inability to reunite many of them is moral? Where I'm from, we'd call that kidnapping.
It's a tough, emotional topic. Rhetoric doesn't help.
Actually, those seeking asylum were forewarned to present themselves at a legal port of entry not enter our country illegally with their kids or they would be separated from them as we don't send kids to jail with their parents. Many did so anyway so they've only themselves to blame and yes it created a beaurocratic nightmare. These kids were not kidnapped and there wasn't anything immoral about it. The immorality was on the part of the parents who ignored what they were forewarned about.
Last edited by Oldglory; 09-02-2018 at 08:00 AM..
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