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Old 09-06-2018, 09:53 AM
 
1,241 posts, read 1,008,840 times
Reputation: 806

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After reading The Omnivores Dilemma and watching documentaries like Symphony of the Soil, I am almost certain that Veganism and Vegetarianism are shallow reactionary movements to the way we treat the animals we consume. Feedlots are horrible and unsustainable. Monoculture agriculture, with use of chemicals is horrible and unsustainable. We need a sustainable way to cultivate food. Some key talking points:

1. There is more vegetation or yield per acre in nature without the use of fertilizers and chemicals than even the top agricultural models can yield with current modern methods of fertilizers and chemicals.

2. Symbiotic relationships between predators and prey are necessary to sustain soil, cultivate food for human and the ecosystem increasing sustainability and independence.

some good reads: https://animalstudiesrepository.org/...text=diecfaori

or just google " Veganism and Monoculture"

If we are going to sustain ourselves, we must ensure we have a sustainable ecosystem. Our food is not something we should allow dependency on chemicals.
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Old 09-06-2018, 11:18 AM
 
3,699 posts, read 3,025,705 times
Reputation: 10007
Our food chain has been terribly compromised by the need to feed the burgeoning population numbers. The centralized, concentrated, industrialized, form of farming has added to our chemical related farming woes as well as creating an opposition force to the mix. The demand for good wholesome meat and vegetables has spurred on a new development of natural food markets and upscale vegan style delis.

Advocating for a decentralizing of the entirety of farming is a huge conceptual move away from the old and failing system of industro-agriculture, it hasn't caught on with the majority of America, but it is a growing trend. I think of the Salton Sea when considering the effects of chemical fertilizers on the ecosystem, as well as the human health aspects surrounding the use of petroleum based farm additives. A once beautiful body of water, poisoned by the large and politically dominant California farming interests. The ongoing debate over GMO crops is now enraging both sides to the extent that it has become a stalemate of hysteria coupled with industrial greed, and the losers, as usual, will be the public's interest, if for no other reason than they lack the necessary information to make good choices.

At present we stuff ourselves with all manner of chemical contrivances disguised as food, and, as if that weren't enough of an insult we are confronted with an incessant barrage of TV and web ads which beguile the kids into eating things that can only be realistically considered as a poison of sorts, little to no nutritional value, but chemically tantalizing to the taste buds. Artificial flavors and no nutrients, and it's all legal, and worse, it's all vetted by government itself, and determined to be edible --if not downright good for you. How can we ever be healthy in the face of such obvious collusion?

Looking at third world nations as a harbinger of things to come in a overpopulated scenario leads me to believe that we may be heading into an era of failing techno-solutions to our social/economic dilemmas, a lot of the populace really believes that anything is possible when enough technology is applied, but this type of thinking can be a real threat to a more pragmatic course of voluntary birth control, after all, making babies--or not--isn't necessarily the stuff of science..We should be a nation of people who care enough about our health to the extent that we will demand an end to the insane food production methods--and all that supports it-- realizing that such a construct is causing so much of our disease and obesity.
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Old 09-06-2018, 11:31 AM
 
Location: Cumberland Co., TN
20,014 posts, read 20,504,984 times
Reputation: 20369
Quote:
Originally Posted by Werone View Post
After reading The Omnivores Dilemma and watching documentaries like Symphony of the Soil, I am almost certain that Veganism and Vegetarianism are shallow reactionary movements to the way we treat the animals we consume. Feedlots are horrible and unsustainable. Monoculture agriculture, with use of chemicals is horrible and unsustainable. We need a sustainable way to cultivate food. Some key talking points:

1. There is more vegetation or yield per acre in nature without the use of fertilizers and chemicals than even the top agricultural models can yield with current modern methods of fertilizers and chemicals.

2. Symbiotic relationships between predators and prey are necessary to sustain soil, cultivate food for human and the ecosystem increasing sustainability and independence.

some good reads: https://animalstudiesrepository.org/...text=diecfaori

or just google " Veganism and Monoculture"

If we are going to sustain ourselves, we must ensure we have a sustainable ecosystem. Our food is not something we should allow dependency on chemicals.
Generally the concern seems to be targeted at the treatment of animals and use of fertilizers and pesticides. I never hear vegetarians or vegans discuss development, human populations and urban sprawl. These things contribute to the imbalance in our ecosystem due to loss of habitat and pollutants that are associated with construction, traffic, industry, and products we use. Loss of habitat equates to loss of food and shelter for wild animals which leads to starvation, disease, death by vehicles and increases in hunting limits. As far as livestock every year I see more and more local farms bought for development; subdivisions, shopping centers, golf courses. When local farmers are not raising livestock in more natural and humane conditions or rotating crops it feed the monoculture and intensive animal farming.
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Old 09-06-2018, 02:30 PM
 
1,241 posts, read 1,008,840 times
Reputation: 806
Quote:
Originally Posted by jertheber View Post
Our food chain has been terribly compromised by the need to feed the burgeoning population numbers. The centralized, concentrated, industrialized, form of farming has added to our chemical related farming woes as well as creating an opposition force to the mix. The demand for good wholesome meat and vegetables has spurred on a new development of natural food markets and upscale vegan style delis.

Advocating for a decentralizing of the entirety of farming is a huge conceptual move away from the old and failing system of industro-agriculture, it hasn't caught on with the majority of America, but it is a growing trend. I think of the Salton Sea when considering the effects of chemical fertilizers on the ecosystem, as well as the human health aspects surrounding the use of petroleum based farm additives. A once beautiful body of water, poisoned by the large and politically dominant California farming interests. The ongoing debate over GMO crops is now enraging both sides to the extent that it has become a stalemate of hysteria coupled with industrial greed, and the losers, as usual, will be the public's interest, if for no other reason than they lack the necessary information to make good choices.

At present we stuff ourselves with all manner of chemical contrivances disguised as food, and, as if that weren't enough of an insult we are confronted with an incessant barrage of TV and web ads which beguile the kids into eating things that can only be realistically considered as a poison of sorts, little to no nutritional value, but chemically tantalizing to the taste buds. Artificial flavors and no nutrients, and it's all legal, and worse, it's all vetted by government itself, and determined to be edible --if not downright good for you. How can we ever be healthy in the face of such obvious collusion?

Looking at third world nations as a harbinger of things to come in a overpopulated scenario leads me to believe that we may be heading into an era of failing techno-solutions to our social/economic dilemmas, a lot of the populace really believes that anything is possible when enough technology is applied, but this type of thinking can be a real threat to a more pragmatic course of voluntary birth control, after all, making babies--or not--isn't necessarily the stuff of science..We should be a nation of people who care enough about our health to the extent that we will demand an end to the insane food production methods--and all that supports it-- realizing that such a construct is causing so much of our disease and obesity.
The world has enough resources to manage feeding a population of 10 billion humans. That is what we need to plan for. (See Religion and Babies by Hans Rosling for explanation of 10 billion people on earth asymptote)

Their is enough energy from the sun to sustain ten billion thriving people, and there is enough life on earth to do the same we just need to become Savvy at being sustainable, not destroying ecosystems that have over 500 million years + of evolution behind them exploiting energy niches. We are destroying them with our current method of food production.
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Old 09-06-2018, 04:10 PM
 
Location: Vienna, Austria
403 posts, read 172,195 times
Reputation: 413
Now we can make artificial caviar, meat and cutlets from soybeans. There is lemonade from chemical components and it is less harmful than the traditional lemonade with natural sugar. We can gradually move forward to artificial food. In that case there will be more forests and less carbon dioxide from thousands of cows and bulls grown to become steaks.
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Old 09-06-2018, 05:29 PM
 
Location: Eugene, Oregon
7,086 posts, read 2,207,882 times
Reputation: 9617
Quote:
Originally Posted by good_deal_maker View Post
Now we can make artificial caviar, meat and cutlets from soybeans. There is lemonade from chemical components and it is less harmful than the traditional lemonade with natural sugar. We can gradually move forward to artificial food. In that case there will be more forests and less carbon dioxide from thousands of cows and bulls grown to become steaks.
The problem is, that based on the spotted history of the food industry, that artificial food will contain harmful substances that they will conceal.
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Old 09-06-2018, 05:50 PM
 
Location: Log "cabin" west of Bangor
5,487 posts, read 6,424,991 times
Reputation: 9378
Quote:
Originally Posted by good_deal_maker View Post
We can gradually move forward to artificial food. In that case there will be more forests and less carbon dioxide from thousands of cows and bulls grown to become steaks.
Plants need carbon dioxide.

We don't have a food problem, we have a 'too many useless people' problem.
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Old 09-07-2018, 08:48 AM
 
1,241 posts, read 1,008,840 times
Reputation: 806
Quote:
Originally Posted by good_deal_maker View Post
Now we can make artificial caviar, meat and cutlets from soybeans. There is lemonade from chemical components and it is less harmful than the traditional lemonade with natural sugar. We can gradually move forward to artificial food. In that case there will be more forests and less carbon dioxide from thousands of cows and bulls grown to become steaks.
Soybeans are part of the problem. They are produced using monoculture industrial farming techniques that do not build "The Soild Food Web" and are therefore not sustainable.
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Old 09-07-2018, 09:10 AM
 
8,504 posts, read 2,387,119 times
Reputation: 8123
Quote:
Originally Posted by Werone View Post
After reading The Omnivores Dilemma and watching documentaries like Symphony of the Soil, I am almost certain that Veganism and Vegetarianism are shallow reactionary movements to the way we treat the animals we consume. Feedlots are horrible and unsustainable. Monoculture agriculture, with use of chemicals is horrible and unsustainable. We need a sustainable way to cultivate food. Some key talking points:

1. There is more vegetation or yield per acre in nature without the use of fertilizers and chemicals than even the top agricultural models can yield with current modern methods of fertilizers and chemicals.

2. Symbiotic relationships between predators and prey are necessary to sustain soil, cultivate food for human and the ecosystem increasing sustainability and independence.

some good reads: https://animalstudiesrepository.org/...text=diecfaori

or just google " Veganism and Monoculture"

If we are going to sustain ourselves, we must ensure we have a sustainable ecosystem. Our food is not something we should allow dependency on chemicals.
You are very wrong.......

1. Without "chemicals" over 1/2 the people on the planet would starve. These "chemicals" are pulled from thin air - that is, the ammonia process.

2. Will you trade your $10 bills to me for $1 bills....one for one? Well, that is what you are doing with beef and some other meats. In fact, the ratio is higher - you feed them 15 lbs of soybeans and corn, etc. protein for one pound of beef protein.

3. Predator and Prey - sounds nice and maybe a supplement for a tiny portion of the world's population, but the idea of the BILLIONS eating wild meat is a fantasy.....

Eating lower on the food chain is the single "average" thing that most can do to assure a better environment and more food to go around. After we get there (and we are well on the way), then we can discuss other details.
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Old 09-07-2018, 09:13 AM
 
8,504 posts, read 2,387,119 times
Reputation: 8123
Quote:
Originally Posted by Troyfan View Post
This is an odd concern when food production is the highest it's ever been. Maybe we can revisit it if it looks like it might become a problem.
Food production relies on this - and on the Red Tide currently eating up an entire coast of Florida....

https://www.sarasotamagazine.com/art...rida-phosphate
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