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Old 09-10-2018, 10:10 PM
 
1,363 posts, read 801,985 times
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Not another thread using some sceinc-y sounding garbage to say Black peoples are somehow morally or psychologically inferior to White or Asian peoples. It's just more eugenics crap.

Racism, real racism, is the belief that intangible qualities like virtue and / or intellect (or the lack thereof) can be attributed to one's geographic orgin, epidermal melanin percentage or, hair texture.

It is one of the dumbest ideas ever. If science were a religion (and I don't mean that dumpster fire called "Scientology") taking this belief, in the name of science, would be an act of blasphemy or heresy at its' most treacherous levels.

Last edited by RageX; 09-10-2018 at 11:22 PM..
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Old 09-11-2018, 01:05 PM
 
Location: Hamilton, New Zeland
102 posts, read 76,692 times
Reputation: 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by RageX View Post
Not another thread using some sceinc-y sounding garbage to say Black peoples are somehow morally or psychologically inferior to White or Asian peoples. It's just more eugenics crap.

Racism, real racism, is the belief that intangible qualities like virtue and / or intellect (or the lack thereof) can be attributed to one's geographic orgin, epidermal melanin percentage or, hair texture.

It is one of the dumbest ideas ever. If science were a religion (and I don't mean that dumpster fire called "Scientology") taking this belief, in the name of science, would be an act of blasphemy or heresy at its' most treacherous levels.
All your response shows are your own biases. I merely stated an argument that I had heard and asked what evidence there was one way or the other. I am completely openminded on the issue and didn't even imply, let alone state that I believe "Black peoples are somehow morally or psychologically inferior to White or Asian peoples".
Instead of arguing against the premise on actual merit as other have, such as pointing out how easily one can alter their physical appearance or linking to some study that disproves the notion, you decided to go on an ad-hoc attack shouting racism.
I asked this question based on curiosity if you think it's too taboo of a topic to talk about maybe you should jump back into your safe space or find a way back to the 10th century when the idea that the earth wasn't the centre of the universe was also an act of blasphemy or heresy since your own narrative seems more important than the truth.
TBH I look forward to a response based on actual evidence, and I sincerely hope that you are correct because despite your attacks I believe in affirmative action, am a strong believer in globalisation and immigration and think that diversity is a strength for my nation (New Zealand).
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Old 09-11-2018, 01:07 PM
 
Location: Hamilton, New Zeland
102 posts, read 76,692 times
Reputation: 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by KenFresno View Post
I am of the opinion that environmental effects such as good health, exposure to a good education and mental stimulation tend to have a much greater effect on IQ levels then anything purely genetic. Look at how adaptable the body is to conditioning. If you workout everyday and eat right your physical body will morph to accommodate the new challenges it is undergoing. You will look much different and you will be able to run faster or longer, lift much heavier weights. There is no reason to believe the brain is not as if not more adaptable then the body.

Its to be noted that IQ can variy quite dramatically in an individual within his or her lifetime.

Sue Ramsden at University College London and her colleagues took a batch of 33 healthy adolescents (aged 12-16), with a wide mix of abilities. She tested their IQ in 2004 and then again 3-4 years later. During each test session, each child had their brains scanned using fMRI. Neither the participants nor their parents had a clue that they would be tested again. Consistent with earlier research, scores changed quite a bit from one testing session to the next. Thirty-three percent of the participants showed a clear change in their total IQ score. To highlight the range: One participant showed an increase in IQ score by 21 points, whereas another showed a decrease of 18 points.

There are way to many factors that effect an individuals IQ level for it to be solely determined by racial and genetic factors alone.

Really interesting point man, thanks for your insights!
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Old 09-11-2018, 01:25 PM
 
Location: Mars City
5,091 posts, read 2,116,724 times
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No difference in basic IQ levels among races.

No proof that evolution is anything beyond a theory.

Do your own thinking and research, and drop the bandwagon / group-think shenanigans.

If anything stunts mentality, it's race-based nonsense and garbage. That poisons all.
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Old 09-11-2018, 01:52 PM
 
Location: DC metropolitan area
632 posts, read 282,393 times
Reputation: 730
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thoreau424 View Post
No difference in basic IQ levels among races.
Not sure what you mean by *basic*, but differences in IQ by racial group have been found and been found to have consequences: Average IQ by Race, Ethnicity, and Career . . . And Why It Matters.

Aborigines have average IQs at around 68. Pygmys in Africa have even lower IQs. Maybe it's all due to environment... and the genetic factor doesn't really matter, but the differences are still there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thoreau424 View Post
No proof that evolution is anything beyond a theory.
I'm no big fan of evolutionism, as in humankind descends from monkeys, but there are clear signs that humans have adapted differently in different parts of the world. A Gael from Ireland and a Wolof from Senegal are unmistakably different. Inuit people have shorter limbs and more body fat... to conserve heat. Nubian people have long limbs and little body fat... to physiologically cope better with the heat.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thoreau424 View Post
If anything stunts mentality, it's race-based nonsense and garbage. That poisons all.
Genetic differences in race is non-sense? Do you not want to save lives?... here's an interesting article on how the medical field is beginning to take racial differences into account: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2594139/. Some diseases afflict only members of specific racial / ethnic groups.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thoreau424 View Post
Do your own thinking and research, and drop the bandwagon / group-think shenanigans.
I've also heard argued that refusing to acknowledge genetic-based differences between the races is a form of group-think. I agree with you on this -- it is good to do your own thinking and your own research.

Last edited by 2ner; 09-11-2018 at 02:14 PM..
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Old 09-11-2018, 05:16 PM
 
Location: Central IL
15,098 posts, read 8,426,622 times
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The races or ethnicities may differ on some characteristics...same as gender or any other groups. The issue is that just because there may be broad differences between groups tells you very little about individuals in those groups. Applying the average for the group to one individual will very likely NOT be accurate. So best practice is to look at an individual if you want to learn something about them rather than rely on a group average.

Another issue is that even if there do happen to be differences between groups, who gets to decide what group is "better" based on that difference? For example, if you find out that white kids can concentrate for longer periods of time than black kids it could be easily assumed that means white kids are better. Another view is that black kids are more energetic and white kids are lazy - since they are so good at sitting around! It's all in the perception and framing of things. If you want to see bad in someone or a group of people there are many ways to do just that - and it is very subjective.
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Old 09-11-2018, 05:44 PM
 
Location: NYC
3,921 posts, read 1,626,419 times
Reputation: 1793
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raysuxx View Post
So I have a few alt-right friends

Now there's the real problem.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Raysuxx View Post
who keep pushing the notion that there is a difference between IQ levels in different racial groups


Right, and I'm certain those guys have real discernible scientific evidence to support this "notion." Furthermore, I'm sure that posting such a question on City-Data is going to lead you to verifiable evidence and not just a bunch of uninformed people posting their irrelevant opinions.





Quote:
Originally Posted by 2ner View Post
Not sure what you mean by *basic*, but differences in IQ by racial group have been found and been found to have consequences: Average IQ by Race, Ethnicity, and Career . . . And Why It Matters.

Now there is a legitimate-looking article. I mean, it's not like it was published on an alt-right website that has a massive immigration agenda to push.


Spoiler
Had a real laugh with this one. According to this "article," sub Saharans are (on average) mentally retarded. Who knew! Also noteworthy are the nonexistent sources for all of the IQ data there.

Last edited by Shalop; 09-11-2018 at 05:59 PM..
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Old 09-11-2018, 05:47 PM
 
14,698 posts, read 3,903,617 times
Reputation: 10722
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raysuxx View Post
So I have a few alt-right friends who keep pushing the notion that there is a difference between IQ levels in different racial groups, arguing this has, in part, led to the disparity in success between different groups
So, I have to assume these alt-right folks you are talking about are of the dumber variety - you know, not Jewish and not Asian, right????

It's an amazing thing that the dumber feel qualified to discuss why they are not smart....
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Old 09-11-2018, 06:34 PM
 
Location: DC metropolitan area
632 posts, read 282,393 times
Reputation: 730
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shalop View Post
Now there is a legitimate-looking article. I mean, it's not like it was published on an alt-right website that has a massive immigration agenda to push.
The article does quote The Bell Curve by Herrnstein and Murray, which many (but certainly not all) consider to be legitimate (the authors said they made every effort to be conservative given the controversial nature of their findings). Here's an editorial that says many of the same things regarding IQ. It's called 25 Facts about IQ You Probably Don't Accept: https://danielmiessler.com/blog/25-f...y-dont-accept/. It doesn't look Alt-Right to me. It's been signed by 52 university academics.

Last edited by 2ner; 09-11-2018 at 06:44 PM..
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Old 09-11-2018, 07:10 PM
 
14,698 posts, read 3,903,617 times
Reputation: 10722
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2ner View Post
The article does quote The Bell Curve by Herrnstein and Murray, which many (but certainly not all) consider to be legitimate (the authors said they made every effort to be conservative given the controversial nature of their findings). Here's an editorial that says many of the same things regarding IQ. It's called 25 Facts about IQ You Probably Don't Accept: https://danielmiessler.com/blog/25-f...y-dont-accept/. It doesn't look Alt-Right to me. It's been signed by 52 university academics.
Many decades behind - and even behind basic logic and common sense.

Anyone with a high IQ, like yours truly, know not to take any of these internet "lists" of 10 or 25 things with any cred. After all, why wouldn't be be 19 things? or 14 things? or 27 things? Only one reason - marketing and click bait.

Just as a simple and provable example of this folly, take one "fact" from that list:

"we do not know yet how to manipulate it to raise low IQs permanently. Whether recent attempts show promise is still a matter of considerable scientific debate"

Read it. Soak it up. Carefully. Then read this - from 30+ year ago....

In the 1980's Japan embarked upon a National Effort to raise the IQ of the population. It was an amazing success, with IQ's being raised as much as 6 points ACROSS THE ENTIRE POPULATION in one decade. After the program was in full progress, Japan beat out the USA by 11 points - an amount that is IMPOSSIBLE by any other reason except training.

AND, it turns out the training was exactly the opposite of what the USA and the UK and some other countries which are getting dumber (or nowhere) are doing. Among the top action credited was the treatment of children.

How Japan Builds Brains - tribunedigital-chicagotribune

"Japanese mothers have an unusually close, indulgent relationship with their young children, who are allowed to explore and learn freely with little adult restraint. This freedom and abundant opportunities to learn language, which mothers provide, are key factors in producing competent, bright youngsters."

In the USA, mothers have to work....sometimes two or three jobs...leaving little time or resources for proper nurturing. We have an entire political party dedicated to destorying our educational system...even wants to do away with the Dept. of Education!

Only Americans can be that stupid and ignorant....that is, to not understand that you have to INVEST and actually create programs to make your country smarter. Instead, we love the uneducated.....

In any case, the Japanese experience proves without a doubt that IQ can be VASTLY raised and it can be done do within a single generation. But, as with solving health care and other big problems. Americans simply don't want to do this. We don't desire intellect....just more guns and drugs.
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