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Old 09-19-2018, 04:23 AM
 
7,588 posts, read 4,156,645 times
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The social justice movement does not represent true pluralism because that group has drawn a line that you are either with them or against them. But the fact that it exists shows a pluralistic society, where its greatest strength is that people now have choices on who to identify with if they need a group to identify with. It does have a weakness, however. The weakness is the lack of tolerance, which is the expectation of nonparticipants or those who don't wish to participate to pick sides.
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Old 09-19-2018, 06:52 AM
 
21,382 posts, read 7,935,527 times
Reputation: 18149
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
It isn't a question of placating anyone.

Sometimes it's a simple matter of saying that what this nation was wrong. Sometime that's all that's needed. That's call honesty.

But instead, the trend for a certain group of people (I'm not going to say it) is to take the historical wrong and blame the wronged group. And you just did it again.
Let's assess:
Was slavery wrong? Yes. Yes it was. Does anyone think differently? No. Everyone thinks slavery was wrong.

Is it wrong to blame people who weren't alive 150 years ago?

Reasonable person: Of course it's wrong. People alive today had nothing to do with it, and the black/AA culture can do everything any white person can, and even has more opportunities via diversity programs for school and work training, scholarships, and job opportunities through affirmative action.

SJW: NO!!! ANY WHITE PERSON MUST PAY THEM NOW!!! THEY ARE HELD DOWN BY THE MAN!!!! THEY HAVE NOTHING!!!!!! AND IT"S ALL THE WHITE MENS FAULT!!!!! EVERYONE ALIVE TODAY IS A RACIST!!
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Old 09-19-2018, 09:15 AM
 
21,382 posts, read 7,935,527 times
Reputation: 18149
Quote:
Originally Posted by elyn02 View Post
The social justice movement does not represent true pluralism because that group has drawn a line that you are either with them or against them. But the fact that it exists shows a pluralistic society, where its greatest strength is that people now have choices on who to identify with if they need a group to identify with. It does have a weakness, however. The weakness is the lack of tolerance, which is the expectation of nonparticipants or those who don't wish to participate to pick sides.
The issue is that the SJWs assign an individual's group identity depending on one variable -- which can change -- regardless of who the individual is or what the individual's actual beliefs are.

For instance:
If you voted for Trump: According to the SJW ideology, you are a religious misogynistic, white, male, nazi nutjob. End of story.

If you voted for Hillary: According to the SJW ideology, you are a tolerant, nonreligious, nonracist, thoughtful and kind person.

Even though people of all colors, backgrounds and sex voted for Trump.
Even though people of all colors, backgrounds and sex voted for Hillary.

SJW ideology isn't based on truth. It's based on stereotypes that push the victim narrative.
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Old 09-19-2018, 10:31 AM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,762 posts, read 24,261,465 times
Reputation: 32905
Quote:
Originally Posted by newtovenice View Post
Let's assess:
Was slavery wrong? Yes. Yes it was. Does anyone think differently? No. Everyone thinks slavery was wrong.

Is it wrong to blame people who weren't alive 150 years ago?

Reasonable person: Of course it's wrong. People alive today had nothing to do with it, and the black/AA culture can do everything any white person can, and even has more opportunities via diversity programs for school and work training, scholarships, and job opportunities through affirmative action.

SJW: NO!!! ANY WHITE PERSON MUST PAY THEM NOW!!! THEY ARE HELD DOWN BY THE MAN!!!! THEY HAVE NOTHING!!!!!! AND IT"S ALL THE WHITE MENS FAULT!!!!! EVERYONE ALIVE TODAY IS A RACIST!!
You reference "reasonable person". The problem is the all too frequent unreasonable neanderthal. And you can take the premise about is slavery wrong? and find their all too frequent excuses for slavery right here in the politics sub-forum. Statements like:

"Well sure slavery is wrong. But that was a different time that we can't understand".
"Well sure slavery is wrong. But we weren't only country to have slaves".
"Well sure slavery is wrong. But Blacks helped round up slaves in Africa".
"Well sure slavery is wrong. But slavery was around as far back as the Old Testament".
"Well sure slavery is wrong. But Africans had slaves, too."
"Well sure slavery is wrong. But some Black Americans had slaves".

No. No. No. No. No. No.

The butts need to leave off the buts and just say that American slavery was wrong.
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Old 09-19-2018, 10:38 AM
 
Location: Southern Oregon
3,040 posts, read 4,998,605 times
Reputation: 3422
Quote:
Originally Posted by CookieSkoon View Post
The social justice movement is a threat to many freedoms. In fact, certain sects of the SJW cult are unwittingly working against themselves.
Agreed, and I do believe that many of these people push for "social justice" wouldn't like living under the system they are fighting for. Be careful what you ask for, you just might get it.
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Old 09-19-2018, 11:24 AM
 
7,588 posts, read 4,156,645 times
Reputation: 6946
Quote:
Originally Posted by newtovenice View Post
The issue is that the SJWs assign an individual's group identity depending on one variable -- which can change -- regardless of who the individual is or what the individual's actual beliefs are.

For instance:
If you voted for Trump: According to the SJW ideology, you are a religious misogynistic, white, male, nazi nutjob. End of story.

If you voted for Hillary: According to the SJW ideology, you are a tolerant, nonreligious, nonracist, thoughtful and kind person.

Even though people of all colors, backgrounds and sex voted for Trump.
Even though people of all colors, backgrounds and sex voted for Hillary.

SJW ideology isn't based on truth. It's based on stereotypes that push the victim narrative.
Yeah. I agree. I just don't play along. Nobody I know does.
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Old 09-19-2018, 11:25 AM
 
Location: Southern MN
12,038 posts, read 8,403,014 times
Reputation: 44792
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
You reference "reasonable person". The problem is the all too frequent unreasonable neanderthal. And you can take the premise about is slavery wrong? and find their all too frequent excuses for slavery right here in the politics sub-forum. Statements like:

"Well sure slavery is wrong. But that was a different time that we can't understand".
"Well sure slavery is wrong. But we weren't only country to have slaves".
"Well sure slavery is wrong. But Blacks helped round up slaves in Africa".
"Well sure slavery is wrong. But slavery was around as far back as the Old Testament".
"Well sure slavery is wrong. But Africans had slaves, too."
"Well sure slavery is wrong. But some Black Americans had slaves".

No. No. No. No. No. No.

The butts need to leave off the buts and just say that American slavery was wrong.
I don't think we can allow the extremists to hold us back. Demanding they think or speak in a certain way or we can't make progress is self-defeating.

It's like drawing a pig-headed line in the sand that guarantees adversarial attitudes. "Do it my way or I'm not playing."

After all, even if they say it the "right" way it doesn't change a thing that has happened. It's best not to get stuck on semantics.

The goal is progress in mutual cooperation in the here and now not arguing about the past.
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Old 09-19-2018, 12:26 PM
 
Location: Paranoid State
13,044 posts, read 13,858,996 times
Reputation: 15839
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbgusa View Post
When the government is taking sides what is beneficial to one person or group may be very unfair to another.
Or, said differently, that government which takes from Peter to give to Paul shall surely have the support of Paul.

That's the problem with SJWs.

They feel a tremendous debt to their fellow man, which debt they will gladly repay with your money.
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Old 09-19-2018, 12:27 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,762 posts, read 24,261,465 times
Reputation: 32905
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lodestar View Post
I don't think we can allow the extremists to hold us back. Demanding they think or speak in a certain way or we can't make progress is self-defeating.

It's like drawing a pig-headed line in the sand that guarantees adversarial attitudes. "Do it my way or I'm not playing."

After all, even if they say it the "right" way it doesn't change a thing that has happened. It's best not to get stuck on semantics.

The goal is progress in mutual cooperation in the here and now not arguing about the past.
Except the future is built on the past.

Some believe that it's just the current minorities that are being vocal and demanding. But that's not true. Many ethnic groups in our nation's past tried to assert their own pasts into the America of the time.
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Old 09-19-2018, 12:31 PM
 
Location: Paranoid State
13,044 posts, read 13,858,996 times
Reputation: 15839
Quote:
Originally Posted by CookieSkoon View Post
Context is important too. Many "haves" did not earn it
Says who? The Grand SJW Court?
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