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Old 09-13-2018, 11:23 AM
 
18,056 posts, read 25,139,251 times
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As a country, we need to eliminate "racial statistics"
stop the BS of "helping by race" and start "Helping poor people = people that need help"

Very simple ..... but I don't know if it's going to happen in my lifetime
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Old 09-13-2018, 11:39 AM
 
Location: Posting from my space yacht.
8,452 posts, read 4,722,431 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dopo View Post
As a country, we need to eliminate "racial statistics"
stop the BS of "helping by race" and start "Helping poor people = people that need help"

Very simple ..... but I don't know if it's going to happen in my lifetime


That would be ideal. What happens though when some groups avail themselves of that help in a more effective and sustainable way than others?
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Old 09-13-2018, 11:41 AM
 
Location: DC metropolitan area
631 posts, read 557,155 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dopo View Post
As a country, we need to eliminate "racial statistics"
stop the BS of "helping by race" and start "Helping poor people = people that need help"

Very simple ..... but I don't know if it's going to happen in my lifetime
That's what they do in France (no race statistics) and you have whole banlieues up in flames from race-mob uprisings and thousands of French Jews making Aliyah each year out of fears for their safety.

I think in the U.S. they instituted *Affirmative* Action in order to try to placate rioting, angry blacks.
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Old 09-13-2018, 11:59 AM
 
Location: Round Rock, Texas
13,440 posts, read 15,390,318 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cape Cod Todd View Post
Time and again we have seen when the government gets involved with something they botch it up.



Shouldn't the best person for the job get the job?
Shouldn't the best students get to go to college?



Affirmative Action/ Diversity whatever they want to call it is not good for the general population because it stifles the opportunity for people to lift themselves up to a higher standard.



Affirmative Action tells minorities that it is OK to not be as smart as a a white/Asia person when they should be studying harder to earn a spot in college.
Years ago, affirmative action was definitely needed to level the playing field for many people not just "minorities" aka Blacks and Hispanics. Let's not gloss over that. Women, blacks, Hispanics, and yes Asians. Maybe the quota system needs to be re-evaluated?


Nowadays it's a double edged sword for Blacks and Hispanics, because if you gain admittance or get a job, it's no longer assumed that you did it because of merit or moxie. It's because of AA. I was admitted to NYU/Tisch on a scholarship 25 years ago. My SAT score was in the high 1100s first try. Didn't bother taking it again. The SAT was really about knowing how to take those types of tests. If you go through cram prep, you can score pretty well. I found the achievement tests to be better indicators, IMHO. I had an outstanding portfolio evaluation though and for an arts school, that weighed far more than the SAT.


No one wants to be a token. I teach my kids to bust their butts in school just like I did, screw their race. Yeah, some Asian kid may or may not score higher than them. So what. Just try your best. Ultimately, in the real world, there are so many factors that go into climbing ladders, beyond test scores and crap like that.


Maybe now things should be more socio-economical, because where SE status does make a big difference. our kids are far more well off than we were at their age and have lots of support/opportunity, as it should be IMHO. we want our children to do better and have more.
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Old 09-13-2018, 12:00 PM
 
Location: Texas
44,256 posts, read 64,165,784 times
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I just think diversity, if that is the goal, should not involve the color of skin.

These institutions say they want people of all different experiences and walks of life so that everyone can be enriched by exposure to new ideas and perspectives.

The color of skin DOES NOT tell you anything substantial about the history, the education, the finances, the life history, the struggle, etc, of anyone.

Hell, just on my street, we got people of all colors, but I would hardly call us a diverse group, bc we are all high earning, college (mostly grad school, actually) educated professionals who came from high earning, educated, professional families. Everyone's married. Everyone has kids. Everyone decorates for the holidays despite different religions, everyone is friendly, everyone keeps their lawn nice, every house has at least one luxury car, etc...

But schools and work diversity is literally skin deep, which makes NO SENSE bc the AA kids at my son's $30k a year elite private school have literally NOTHING ELSE IN COMMON from an AA kid from a poor food-desert-gang-infested neighborhood.

That's why the way "diversity" is currently handled on its face is so racist.

"You're black, so you must have struggled and had druggie parents."
"You're asian, so school is easy for you and you are an academic automaton with no personality or friends...let's deduct 150 points off your SAT."
"You're white, so you can't possibly have overcome any challenges in your life."

Blah blah blah...it's ridiculous.
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Old 09-13-2018, 05:12 PM
 
62,647 posts, read 28,833,717 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pogue Mahone View Post
Before you can have any real discussion about the role of diversity in our society we must first answer the question of what the purpose of promoting diversity in a society is. Why is it important? Why is making some societies that are not diverse in to more diverse societies an important goal, but not so for others? When you understand the motives behind the push for diversity then you can better answer questions about the application of it.

I can see how racial diversity can play an important role genetically but cultural diversity within a society not so much. All you end up with is a clash of ideals, religious beliefs, languages and other factors that makes us incompatible with one another. I think that a homogenous society "culturally" makes for a much more peaceful society.
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Old 09-13-2018, 06:26 PM
 
Location: Texas
44,256 posts, read 64,165,784 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
I think that a homogenous society "culturally" makes for a much more peaceful society.
Yeah, but it can also be super oppressive and stifle people.
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Old 09-13-2018, 08:37 PM
Status: "A solution in search of a problem" (set 29 days ago)
 
Location: New York Area
34,606 posts, read 16,678,923 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Troyfan View Post
Diversity is a two edged sword. It's cuts both ways. How can the leading American university have a student body made up of only 2 ethic groups: Jews and Orientals? This would happen is it weren't for diversity. **********
I take the 2nd. Harvard prepares the leaders of America. In a country of many peoples, it isn't acceptable to have leaders come from only 2 of them. The country would stand for it.
Asians and Jews have historically poured serious resources into education. During the early periods in the U.S. this involved dedicating scarce money to education. In wealthier settings it involves time; literally spending hours with children on homework and extracurricular activities. This is a prelude to excellence.

Nothing is stopping other groups from similar reallocation of time and resources....

Some student should not be denied admission to a college or acceptance at a job because they are Asian or Jewish. That is,to use a simple terms, racism.
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Old 09-13-2018, 11:13 PM
 
1,687 posts, read 1,275,822 times
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I can't stand "diversity" politics or admissions.

I know Black people that got 1400+ on their SATs that are pissed off, rightly, that their applications were passed over for other Black people with significantly lower scores due to "a lesser degree of adversity" than that applicant.

"WHAT?! The adversity of being a dumb s---?"
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Old 09-14-2018, 03:58 AM
 
13,498 posts, read 18,121,438 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
....but cultural diversity within a society not so much. All you end up with is a clash of ideals, religious beliefs, languages and other factors that makes us incompatible with one another. I think that a homogenous society "culturally" makes for a much more peaceful society.
Ugh!

I grew up in a town with mainly Protestants and Catholics, and a handful of Jews. Most of the people were white, but about five percent of my public school classmates were African-American. The town had a rather sizable minority of immigrants from Sicily and their children, with many still speaking Sicilian Italian; 2nd and 3rd generation Irish who had not yet intermarried outside their ethnic group and about 50% descendants of Yankees from New England and the handful of Jews of Eastern European origin. It was a wonderful environment to grow up in...even when prejudice reared its head, as it did every now and then. It was a capsule of American history.
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