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Old 10-02-2018, 03:58 PM
 
1,834 posts, read 2,688,338 times
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If we do not support our laws, innocent until proven guilty, and the legal concepts our nation is based on we are nothing.

 
Old 10-02-2018, 09:30 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,450 posts, read 24,044,107 times
Reputation: 32778
Quote:
Originally Posted by DefiantNJ View Post
He is being humiliated. And how many job interviews are there today that are broadcast across the US with half a nation watching? Pretty much one, SCOTUS nomination. So let's not trivialize what he is going through...
Well, the most humiliating aspect of the hearings thus far was him sniveling and yelling and being on the verge of tears.
 
Old 10-02-2018, 09:31 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,450 posts, read 24,044,107 times
Reputation: 32778
Quote:
Originally Posted by mortpes View Post
If we do not support our laws, innocent until proven guilty, and the legal concepts our nation is based on we are nothing.
He is not involved in a court of law.
 
Old 10-02-2018, 10:07 PM
 
Location: In my skin
9,230 posts, read 16,517,749 times
Reputation: 9174
Quote:
Originally Posted by phantompilot View Post
Why is it any more heinous than any other crime against persons?
It's the sullying effect that makes it more heinous. That's not about the crime itself, but what we imrpint upon it as a society.
 
Old 10-02-2018, 11:50 PM
 
Location: U.S.A., Earth
5,511 posts, read 4,458,197 times
Reputation: 5769
Quote:
Originally Posted by MinivanDriver View Post
Well, yeah. You can think anything you want.



But that's not the issue here. It's the willingness of a nomination of a Supreme Court judge to be held up due to unsubstantiated claims from 35 years ago, claims that have been rebutted by Dr. Ford's own witnesses.



Here's the problem with saying you believe her, however. By saying, "I believe her," then you are automatically buying into an accusation without a shred of proof based on nothing more than who she is and who he is. Did Kavanaugh do this? I don't know. I literally don't know one way or another. Because I don't know what the evidence is. Is there foundation to her statement?



But what I do know is that anyone, man, woman, white, black, latino, straight, gay, Methodist, Catholic, Jewish, Muslim, whoever, should not have a de facto pronouncement of guilt or innocence hung around his or her neck just because he or she falls within a particular identity group. Ultimately, it is the reduction of people into stereotypes, with people acting as judge and jury based on who they are rather than what they did. In that sense, saying, "I believe her because she's a woman" is no different than saying, "I believe her because she's white."



More to the point, if you simply shrug and say, "Hey, what's the harm? My opinion doesn't matter," I would argue that it does matter. For when we form lynch mobs, especially those based on well-orchestrated political operatives, then no one is really safe.
People in job interviews take so much heat.... when a job candidate is revealed to have stolen money, with OUT proof, but several probes have revealed this is a pattern... you don't have to believe what others say, but to err on the side of caution, you probably wouldn't hire this person either... no?



Quote:
Originally Posted by DefiantNJ View Post
He is being humiliated. And how many job interviews are there today that are broadcast across the US with half a nation watching? Pretty much one, SCOTUS nomination. So let's not trivialize what he is going through...
Not even the same. Naturally, SCOTUS is going to have A LOT of media attention. No one really cares that one's nephew got the rude treatment while interviewing to work at McDonalds, some internship position at the law office, as a junior software developer, or as a factory foreman.
 
Old 10-03-2018, 07:09 AM
 
Location: Virginia Beach, VA
11,157 posts, read 13,961,536 times
Reputation: 14935
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
1. Why am I not at all surprised?

2. Isn't it a shame when the power shifts and you're no longer in the favored group.

3. The public has always been a judge and jury.
I guess that makes it okay then.
 
Old 10-03-2018, 08:35 AM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,450 posts, read 24,044,107 times
Reputation: 32778
Quote:
Originally Posted by iknowftbll View Post
I guess that makes it okay then.
Actually, yes.

He is being nominated for the Supreme Court...the highest court of the land.
It is purely a political appointment, which apparently about half of the country is opposed to.
He would probably serve for a lifetime.

Yes, I think the public has a right to speak.
 
Old 10-03-2018, 09:52 AM
 
Location: Virginia Beach, VA
11,157 posts, read 13,961,536 times
Reputation: 14935
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
Actually, yes.

He is being nominated for the Supreme Court...the highest court of the land.
It is purely a political appointment, which apparently about half of the country is opposed to.
He would probably serve for a lifetime.

Yes, I think the public has a right to speak.
I had a big long rebuttal composed but I deleted it in favor of this question:


If an investigation determines Ford's accusations cannot be substantiated do you still oppose Judge K's confirmation?
 
Old 10-03-2018, 11:00 AM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,450 posts, read 24,044,107 times
Reputation: 32778
Quote:
Originally Posted by iknowftbll View Post
I had a big long rebuttal composed but I deleted it in favor of this question:


If an investigation determines Ford's accusations cannot be substantiated do you still oppose Judge K's confirmation?
Up until his last day of testimony, I would have said yes.

But after that shocking display of temper, sniveling, snorting, and partisanship...not any more.
 
Old 10-03-2018, 11:15 AM
 
Location: Virginia Beach, VA
11,157 posts, read 13,961,536 times
Reputation: 14935
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
Up until his last day of testimony, I would have said yes.

But after that shocking display of temper, sniveling, snorting, and partisanship...not any more.
Bolded is subjective and I'll stay away from it altogether. Not relevant to me.


Your initial answer is fair enough in my estimation. Your comments on the court of public opinion had me wondering if you believed he shouldn't be confirmed, even absent of substantiated accusations, due to the fact that a large segment of the population didn't like the nomination. That would have opened a whole new frontier to this discussion but I believe that's not necessary. Glad I deleted my lengthy dissertation and replaced with a question.
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